QA：為什么巴基斯坦選擇中國JF17 而不是韓國KFX/FA50？畢竟兩者在能力和成本方面也基本相似
Why did Pakistan choose the JF17 over the KFX/FA50 when both are largely similar in capability and cost-wise comparable too?
譯文簡介
QA：為什么巴基斯坦選擇中國JF17 而不是韓國KFX/FA50？畢竟兩者在能力和成本方面也基本相似。
正文翻譯
Aya Shawn
the reason is simple
The Koreans only want to sell aircraft, but the Koreans themselves are still under the control of the United States, and their technology and experience are incomplete. They have not even equipped their own fighter jets on a large scale.
At that time, the Chinese had much more experience in manufacturing fighter jets than the Koreans. What's more, the Chinese not only sell aircraft, but are also willing to help Pakistan build its own fighter aviation industry.
原因很簡單
韓國人只想賣飛機(jī)，但韓國人本身還處于美國的控制之下，技術(shù)和經(jīng)驗都不完整。他們甚至還沒有大規(guī)模裝備自己的戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)。
當(dāng)時中國人制造戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)的經(jīng)驗比韓國人豐富得多。更重要的是，中國人不僅賣飛機(jī)，還愿意幫助巴基斯坦建立自己的戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)航空工業(yè)。
the reason is simple
The Koreans only want to sell aircraft, but the Koreans themselves are still under the control of the United States, and their technology and experience are incomplete. They have not even equipped their own fighter jets on a large scale.
At that time, the Chinese had much more experience in manufacturing fighter jets than the Koreans. What's more, the Chinese not only sell aircraft, but are also willing to help Pakistan build its own fighter aviation industry.
原因很簡單
韓國人只想賣飛機(jī)，但韓國人本身還處于美國的控制之下，技術(shù)和經(jīng)驗都不完整。他們甚至還沒有大規(guī)模裝備自己的戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)。
當(dāng)時中國人制造戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)的經(jīng)驗比韓國人豐富得多。更重要的是，中國人不僅賣飛機(jī)，還愿意幫助巴基斯坦建立自己的戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)航空工業(yè)。
Later history proved how correct the Pakistanis' choice was.
The FA50 project is not only six years delayed than the JF-17 project, but also has many problems based on its use in Malaysia and the Philippines.
FA50 relies on American and Israeli suppliers for many key assemblies. This severely limits the production, supply and after-sales service of aircraft.
At the same time, the radar and missiles equipped by the FA50 also lag far behind the JF-17, and its combat capabilities are at a disadvantage.
后來的歷史證明巴基斯坦人的選擇是多么正確。
FA50項目不僅比JF-17項目推遲了六年，而且基于其在馬來西亞和菲律賓的使用情況看，也存在很多問題。
FA50 的許多關(guān)鍵組件均依賴美國和以色列供應(yīng)商。這嚴(yán)重限制了飛機(jī)的生產(chǎn)、供應(yīng)和售后服務(wù)。
同時，F(xiàn)A50配備的雷達(dá)和導(dǎo)彈也遠(yuǎn)遠(yuǎn)落后于JF-17，作戰(zhàn)能力處于劣勢。
On the other side, the Chinese not only delivered the product on time, but also at a very low price.
They also helped Pakistan establish its own production lines.
Most of the parts of this aircraft are produced by the Chinese themselves, except for the Russian RD93 engine. Later, even the engine was replaced with the Chinese WS13.
Pakistan can produce this fighter jet on its own without restrictions. This has led to a continued decline in the unit cost of fighter aircraft.
Pakistan has even started selling this fighter jet to other countries.
Pakistan chose to cooperate with the Chinese and eventually transformed from a country that could not even manufacture cars to an exporter of advanced fighter jets.
Can the Koreans give them such a result?
I believe that not only Koreans, but no country in the world can do this except the Chinese who regard Pakistan as a "brother".
另一方面，中國人不僅按時交付產(chǎn)品，而且價格非常低。
他們還幫助巴基斯坦建立自己的生產(chǎn)線。
除了俄羅斯的RD93發(fā)動機(jī)外，這架飛機(jī)的大部分零部件都是中國人自己生產(chǎn)的。后來連發(fā)動機(jī)都換成了中國的WS13。
巴基斯坦可以不受限制地自行生產(chǎn)這款戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)。這導(dǎo)致戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)的單位成本持續(xù)下降。
巴基斯坦甚至開始向其他國家出售這種戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)。
巴基斯坦選擇與中國人合作，最終從一個連汽車都不能制造的國家轉(zhuǎn)型為先進(jìn)戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)的出口國。
韓國人能給他們這樣的結(jié)果嗎？
我相信，不僅是韓國人，世界上除了視巴基斯坦為“兄弟”的中國人之外，沒有哪個國家能做到這一點。
They also helped Pakistan establish its own production lines.
Most of the parts of this aircraft are produced by the Chinese themselves, except for the Russian RD93 engine. Later, even the engine was replaced with the Chinese WS13.
Pakistan can produce this fighter jet on its own without restrictions. This has led to a continued decline in the unit cost of fighter aircraft.
Pakistan has even started selling this fighter jet to other countries.
Pakistan chose to cooperate with the Chinese and eventually transformed from a country that could not even manufacture cars to an exporter of advanced fighter jets.
Can the Koreans give them such a result?
I believe that not only Koreans, but no country in the world can do this except the Chinese who regard Pakistan as a "brother".
另一方面，中國人不僅按時交付產(chǎn)品，而且價格非常低。
他們還幫助巴基斯坦建立自己的生產(chǎn)線。
除了俄羅斯的RD93發(fā)動機(jī)外，這架飛機(jī)的大部分零部件都是中國人自己生產(chǎn)的。后來連發(fā)動機(jī)都換成了中國的WS13。
巴基斯坦可以不受限制地自行生產(chǎn)這款戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)。這導(dǎo)致戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)的單位成本持續(xù)下降。
巴基斯坦甚至開始向其他國家出售這種戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)。
巴基斯坦選擇與中國人合作，最終從一個連汽車都不能制造的國家轉(zhuǎn)型為先進(jìn)戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)的出口國。
韓國人能給他們這樣的結(jié)果嗎？
我相信，不僅是韓國人，世界上除了視巴基斯坦為“兄弟”的中國人之外，沒有哪個國家能做到這一點。
評論翻譯
很贊 ( 76 )
收藏
Jhon Halim
· Oct 24
cheaper price, reliable ally plus technology transfer , no contest here
更便宜的價格，可靠的盟友加上技術(shù)轉(zhuǎn)讓，什么競爭，不存在的。
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Chiang Seng Erh
· Oct 24
Buying the Korean fighter jet is just like handing over the control to USA. That has been well proven with those countries buying USA weapons. It is just disastrous!
Taiwan is still waiting for $19 Billion worth of US weapons already fully paid in advance but undelivered for years already.
購買韓國戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)就相當(dāng)于把控制權(quán)交給了美國。那些購買美國武器的國家已經(jīng)充分證明了這一點。這簡直是??災(zāi)難性的！
臺灣仍在等待價值190億美元的美國武器，這些武器已提前全額付款，但已多年未交付。
BL Cheah
· Oct 24
It’s a scam, they are never really intending on delivering. if they were so afraid that Taiwan would be invaded, they would be delivering weapons asap. But now they are just hyping and taking orders for military gear (and payments). So you can see what they really are up to.
這是一個騙局，他們從來沒有真正打算交付。如果他們真的害怕臺灣被入q，他們就會盡快提供武器。但現(xiàn)在他們只是大肆宣傳并接受軍事裝備（和付款）的訂單。所以你可以看到他們真正在做什么。
· Oct 24
Just like Ukraine. I wonder how much of that money flows back into the pockets of corrupt Taiwanese officals.
就像烏克蘭一樣。我不知道這些錢有多少又流回臺灣腐敗官員的口袋里。
· Oct 25
And they’ll never get it. The US knows Taiwan can’t do anything if China gets annoyed at them and chooses to put their military in the island and they’d get whatever those weapons can do.
他們永遠(yuǎn)不會得到這些武器。美國知道，如果中國對他們感到惱火并選擇在臺灣部署軍隊，那么臺灣將無能為力，而這些武器的各種技術(shù)秘密都會變成他們的。
· Nov 1
See how Uncle Sam tricked TSMC into building factory in Arizona and still hasn’t split the $50 billion reward yet with TSMC while Intel & others got their fair share?
看看山姆大叔如何欺騙臺積電在亞利桑那州建廠，但一直沒有給臺積兌現(xiàn)500億美元獎勵，英特爾和其他公司得到了他們應(yīng)有的部分嗎？
Effweye Yen
· Oct 25
Maybe Taiwan can buy the JF-17… :)
也許臺灣可以購買 JF-17...:)
Muhammad Naseem
· Oct 31
Earlier US did the same with Pakistan, Took money for 28 F-16s and later placed sanction over Pakistan, telling them the planes could not be delivered under sanctions. When Pakistan asked to refund the payment they offered wheat instead of money.
此前美國也對巴基斯坦采取了同樣的做法，最初巴基斯坦拿錢購買了28架F-16，后來美國對巴基斯坦實施制裁，告訴他們這些飛機(jī)在制裁下無法交付。
當(dāng)巴基斯坦要求退還款項時，他們居然用小麥來提債而不是美元。
· Nov 1
Taiwan has been taken to the laundry and the separatists (traitors ?) are happy to be taken to the laundry. Understandable though.
臺灣已被帶到黑店里，分裂分子們很高興被帶到黑店里挨宰。不過可以理解。
Hilman Fatur
· Oct 25
Learning from Indonesia experience it is a mistake to cooperate with Korea in fighter jet industry.
借鑒印尼的經(jīng)驗，與韓國在戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)領(lǐng)域進(jìn)行合作是一個錯誤。
Jacc Douglas
· Oct 26
What happened?
發(fā)生啥事了
· Oct 27
It was originally collaboration between Turkey, Korea, and Indonesia to develop their own fighter jet so we could locally produced our own jet, after it starts Turkey foresight the problem from Korean side first so they leave the program and create on their own, Indonesia then wanted to follow Turkey step and join Turkey program, but Indonesia stopped by the Korea to stay in with a lot of diplomatic mission. Then after Indonesia stay in the problem really surfacing, all of Indonesian engineering team are not given the right to even glimpse at the technology which is the main reason Indonesia still want to stay in the program, the Korean reason is because all of the technology they use are from USA which is confidental to non USA allies and since Indonesia is not USA allies we are not allowed to saw anything. On the otherside Turkey program worked really well and even announced the success of the program almost at the same time as the Korean. Indonesian government express their dissatisfaction but can't do anything because of the agreement. Finally after Indonesia threatened that they'll not pay the rest of the money to Korea at least they got the technology for assembly (non-vital technology). Basically Indonesia need to pay for something that we almost got no benefit from it.
本來是土耳其、韓國和印度尼西亞合作開發(fā)自己的戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)，這樣我們就可以在當(dāng)?shù)厣a(chǎn)自己的戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)。計劃開始之后土耳其先預(yù)見到了韓國方面的問題，所以他們離開了這個項目，決定自己搞。印度尼西亞本來想追隨土耳其的步伐，加入土耳其計劃。但卻因為韓國外交使團(tuán)的干擾，選擇了留在該計劃中，直到問題真正浮出水面。所有印度尼西亞工程團(tuán)隊都沒有權(quán)利看到技術(shù)，而技術(shù)是印度尼西亞仍然希望留在該計劃中的主要原因，韓國則聲稱他們的所有技術(shù)使用來自美國，對非美國盟友保密。且由于印度尼西亞不是美國盟友，我們不被允許看到任何東西。另一方面，土耳其的計劃進(jìn)展順利，幾乎與韓國同時宣布該計劃的成功。印尼政府對此表示不滿，但因協(xié)議限制而無能為力。最后，在印度尼西亞威脅說他們不會向韓國支付剩余的錢后，最終他們獲得了一些外圍組裝技術(shù)（非重要技術(shù)）?；旧?，印度尼西亞付出了高昂的代價，但是幾乎沒有得到什么好處。
Jon L
· Oct 25
US government long arms jurisdiction means buyers don't really own the products. It's still indirectly under US control.
美國政府的長臂管轄權(quán)意味著買家并不真正擁有這些產(chǎn)品。它仍然間接受到美國的控制。
Paul Poh
· Oct 26
USA cannot enforce any Sanction on China, unlike Korea who is under American control.
與受美國控制的韓國不同，美國無法對中國實施任何制裁。
Gareth Wells
· Oct 27
Need to worry about kill switches on any American or American related weapons, especially aircraft.
需要擔(dān)心任何美國或美國相關(guān)武器（尤其是飛機(jī)）上的自殺開關(guān)。
James Liong
· Oct 29
IMHO I'm no expert, guessing US will not do this directly perhaps indirectly US can control their weapons such as GPS to a particular area, or to particular guidance system or radar system eg of a missile or aircraft.
恕我直言，我不是專家，我覺得美國不會直接這樣做，也許美國可以間接的控制他們的武器，例如特定區(qū)域的 GPS，或者特定的制導(dǎo)系統(tǒng)或雷達(dá)系統(tǒng)，例如導(dǎo)彈或飛機(jī)。
· Oct 27
Amazing facts …
你展示了驚人的事實
Akhtar Ali
· Nov 1
Pakistan & China are iron brother. Inshallah time will prove it.
巴基斯坦和中國是鐵哥們兒。時間會證明這一點。
Kenneth Kay
· Nov 1
“Iron Brothers”
“鐵哥們”
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Matt J
· Nov 10
Fair article in general but there's no way China sees Pakistan as anything other than a customer.
總的來說，這是一篇平衡的文章，但中國也僅僅是把巴基斯坦作為客戶，沒有更多。
· Nov 13
Malaysia did not operate the F50, it is Indonesia & the Philippines. Both countries did not report any issues with the plane, if so, the Philippines would not buy them.
馬來西亞沒有運營F50，是印度尼西亞和菲律賓人買的。兩國都沒有報告這架飛機(jī)有任何問題，如果有的話，菲律賓就不會購買它們。
· Oct 27
Amazing facts …
Maybe not as optimistic as you say. Customers often don’t know there is a problem until they buy the car and use it.
rather than "because I bought it, there can't be anything wrong with it"
可能沒有你說的這么樂觀。 顧客往往是把車子買回去使用之后才知道有什么問題
而不是“因為我買了，所以它不可能有問題”
· Nov 1
You are all forgetting a very important fact. The JF-17 is a true fighter aircraft, its original design was born for combat. The F50 is just a training aircraft. Its original design was for "teaching", but it can be used part-time after being equipped with weapons.
When you need to fight India's SU30MKI, you don't want a part-time trainer aircraft. You need truly deadly weapons!
你們都忘記了一個非常重要的事實。JF-17是一款真正的戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)，它的原始設(shè)計就是為戰(zhàn)斗而生的。而F50只是一架教練機(jī)，它的原始設(shè)計是“教學(xué)”，只不過安裝武器后可以兼職而已。
當(dāng)你需要和印度的SU30MKI作戰(zhàn)時，你不會想要一架兼職的教練機(jī)。你需要真正致命的武器！
中巴友誼萬歲
· Nov 2
Americans have betrayed Pakistan long ago!
Although our Air Force is still using F16, it is unsustainable.
The lessons learned from F16 are enough. Pakistan will never be able to hand over its future to the United States again. Yes, in my opinion Korean aircraft are just American products with a new outer shell. When Americans turn the key, Koreans can only kneel down.
We now only trust our brothers in the Islamic world and our ally China. You must know that the friendship between China and Pakistan has lasted for decades and is very stable.
China is a superpower, and China has the ability to continuously introduce more advanced aircraft. Their products are a complete family. Therefore, after Pakistani pilots become familiar with the JF-17, they can easily control the more powerful JF-18 (J10C). In the future, we will upgrade to the JF-20 (J20 or J31).
The Koreans have been lagging behind the Chinese for decades. They have only a handful of toys and are not a heavyweight player with China at all.
美國人早就背叛了巴基斯坦！
雖然我們的空軍還在使用F16，但是那是不可持續(xù)的。
F16的教訓(xùn)足夠了，巴基斯坦不可能把自己的未來再次交給美國。是的，在我看來韓國飛機(jī)只是換了個外殼的美國貨。美國人擰一下鑰匙，韓國人就只能跪下。
我們現(xiàn)在只信任伊斯蘭世界的兄弟，還有我們的盟友中國。你必須知道，中國和巴基斯坦的友誼已經(jīng)持續(xù)了幾十年了，而且非常穩(wěn)定。
中國是超級大國，中國有能力不斷的推出更先進(jìn)的飛機(jī)。他們的產(chǎn)品是一個完整的家族。所以巴基斯坦飛行員熟悉了JF-17之后，就可以很容易的操縱更強(qiáng)大的JF-18(J10C)，未來，我們還會升級到JF-20（J20或者J31）。韓國人已經(jīng)落后中國人數(shù)十年了，他們手里的玩具屈指可數(shù)，和中國根本不是一個重量級的選手。
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