話題討論：為什么俄羅斯的低成本蘇聯(lián)時代的“智能”炸彈對烏克蘭的防御如此有效？
Why Russia's 'smart' low-cost Soviet-era bombs are so effective against Ukrainian defenses
譯文簡介
俄羅斯的導彈襲擊已經(jīng)成為烏克蘭人民日常生活的一部分。西方防空系統(tǒng)幫助烏克蘭應(yīng)對了這些襲擊。但在前線，來自更大、更危險的俄羅斯滑翔炸彈的威脅正在增加。德國之聲記者尼克·康諾利采訪了烏克蘭士兵，他們正在學習如何面對這種危險。
正文翻譯
Russian missile attacks have become part of everyday life for the people of Ukraine. Western air defense systems have helped Ukraine deal with these attacks. But on the front lines the threat from ever larger and more dangerous Russian glide bombs is growing. DW correspondent Nick Connolly meets Ukrainian soldiers who are learning to live with this danger.
俄羅斯的導彈襲擊已經(jīng)成為烏克蘭人民日常生活的一部分。西方防空系統(tǒng)幫助烏克蘭應(yīng)對了這些襲擊。但在前線，來自更大、更危險的俄羅斯滑翔炸彈的威脅正在增加。德國之聲記者尼克·康諾利采訪了烏克蘭士兵，他們正在學習如何面對這種危險。
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After 2 years of American and European expensive "Game Changers" that turned out to be over rated, it turned out that the Game Changer was an inexpensive Soviet era technology bomb with wings.
在美國和歐洲昂貴的“游戲改變者”被高估了兩年之后，事實證明，游戲改變者是一種廉價的采用蘇聯(lián)時代技術(shù)的帶翅膀的炸彈。
There is a reason why the AK-47 is still the most used rifle around the world, and not the M16...
世界上使用最多的步槍仍然是AK-47，而不是M16，這是有原因的……
I heard Russia also puts wings on shovels and then drops them from aircraft. Those are extra unstoppable.
我聽說俄羅斯還把翅膀裝在“鐵鍬”上，然后從飛機上丟下來。這些都是不可阻擋的。
Have they forgot the leaked pentagon reports about JDAM performance in Ukraine? Ukraine used JDAM which is the same glide bomb Russia is using but is advertised as "better, more accurate, and more modern". Yet Russia made them almost useless by jamming GPS.
難道他們忘了五角大樓泄露的關(guān)于烏克蘭JDAM性能的報告嗎? 烏克蘭使用的是JDAM，與俄羅斯使用的滑翔炸彈相同，但被宣傳為“更好，更準確，更現(xiàn)代”。然而，俄羅斯通過干擾全球定位系統(tǒng)使它們幾乎毫無用處。
Now I figure it out why NATO called the “shovels”. Only have to see the size of the crater it dig
現(xiàn)在我知道為什么北約叫它“鐵鍬”了。只需要看看它挖的坑有多大。
1.1 billion $ system vs 20.000$ Soviet bomb.
11億美元的系統(tǒng) vs 2萬美元的蘇聯(lián)炸彈。
The biggest country in the world, great science base, able to produce nuclear power plants, planes, rockets for space program, sattelites, two CPU manufacturers, enormous resources of commodies, energy, food backed by China and many other big countries in the world. Americans and British politicians think that Russia is Libya, Serbia, Iraq, Panama.
世界上最大的國家，極好的科學基礎(chǔ)，能夠生產(chǎn)核電站，飛機，用于太空計劃的火箭，衛(wèi)星，兩個CPU制造商，巨大的商品資源，能源，食品，由中國和世界上許多其他大國支持。美國和英國政客認為俄羅斯是利比亞、塞爾維亞、伊拉克或者巴拿馬。
Its difficult to admit the truth after 2 and a half years of lies isnt it?
經(jīng)過兩年半的謊言后，很難承認真相，不是嗎?
A 64-year-old grandmother in Transcarpathia was sentenced to 5 years in prison for celebrating Cosmonautics Day.
On April 12, 2024, a pensioner from the village of Bedevlya, Tyachiv district, Transcarpathian region, published a post on her page on the Odnoklassniki social network dedicated to the celebration of Cosmonautics Day.
The grandmother posted a photo with Yuri Gagarin with the caption “Thank you, Yuri Alekseevich.”
外喀爾巴阡山脈一位64歲的老奶奶因慶祝宇航員日而被判5年監(jiān)禁。
2024年4月12日，一位來自外喀爾巴阡地區(qū)Tyachiv區(qū)Bedevlya村的退休老人在社交網(wǎng)絡(luò)Odnoklassniki的頁面上發(fā)表了一篇文章，專門慶祝宇航員日。
這位祖母上傳了一張與尤里·加加林的照片，并配文“謝謝你，尤里·阿列克謝耶維奇?！?/b>
A stinking, shameful pseudo-state. The prison of nations is vile. Populated by frightened slaves, where one half is shaking and dreams of escaping, and the other half is chasing the first
5年監(jiān)禁。
一個臭氣熏天、可恥的偽國家。這個可憎的列國的牢獄。那里住著受驚的奴隸，一半在顫抖，夢想著逃跑，另一半在追逐前者。
American defense contractors must be in rage! How dare those Russians produce cheap weapons! Bad for business. Outrages!
美國國防承包商一定非常憤怒! 那些俄羅斯人怎么敢生產(chǎn)廉價武器! 對生意不利。暴行!
Last year DW was saying that Russia doesn't have weapons now they are crying again
去年德國之聲說俄羅斯沒有武器，現(xiàn)在他們又哭了。
US: Spends trillions on research and innovation.
RUS: Puts wings on a 60 year old bomb and just sends it.
美國:在研究和創(chuàng)新上花費數(shù)萬億美元。
俄羅斯:給一個60年的老炸彈插上翅膀，然后把它扔出去。
Those washing machines sure pack a punch.
那些洗衣機的威力可真大。
“NASA spent millions of dollars inventing the ball-point pen so they could write in space. The Russians took a pencil.”
“美國宇航局花了數(shù)百萬美元發(fā)明圓珠筆，這樣他們就可以在太空中寫字了。俄國人拿了一支鉛筆?！?/b>
These Shovels and washing machines are so precise!
這些鐵鍬和洗衣機太精密了!
The proxy war in Ukraine is the first time NATO has tried to pick on someone their own size and NATO is getting humiliated.
烏克蘭的代理人戰(zhàn)爭是北約第一次試圖對一個與自己規(guī)模相仿的國家挑麻煩，所以北約正受到羞辱。
Proof that everything new isn't better.
證明并非所有新事物都更好。
When you have a limited budget innovation takes place. When you have an indefinite budget, you just bribe your Officials for more and more and have over 900 unnecessary bases around the world but could not produce 155mm ammunition in sufficient quantities
當你的預算有限時，創(chuàng)新就會發(fā)生。當你有無限期的預算時，你只會越來越多的賄賂你的官員，在世界各地搞900多個不必要的基地，卻不能生產(chǎn)足夠數(shù)量的155毫米彈藥。
But Russia is out of weapons and Ukraine is winning right.. right?
但是俄羅斯沒有武器了，烏克蘭贏了……對吧?
imagine $20,000 bomb wreaking havoc that multimillion air defenses can't defend against!
想象一下，2萬美元的炸彈造成巨大破壞，價值數(shù)百萬的防空系統(tǒng)卻無法防御!
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Washing machines work better than expensive western equipment
洗衣機比昂貴的西方設(shè)備好用。
fun fact these glide bombs are very difficult to track by radar ,often seen a a dot on screen which then disappears
有趣的是，這些滑翔炸彈很難被雷達跟蹤，通常在屏幕上看到一個點，然后消失。
The main thing to remember: Russia burned exactly as many times as its enemies were defeated.
In Russia, the main value is family, loved ones: parents, brothers, sisters, children, friends. Now we do not feel a threat from Ukraine and the West; local conflicts have always arisen in all parts of the globe. Most Russian citizens continue to live peaceful lives, rarely feeling the presence of war. BUT! But if each of us feels a threat to our native land, our home, and, in the end, our family and friends, then everyone will take up arms and, if necessary, give their lives for all this (even women, for example, my mother in 1969 I don’t mind fighting if necessary). And, believe me, the cost of our lives for those who started all this will be very high. Even if we suddenly lose, even if we all die, we will take with us as many enemies as possible, and perhaps all of them. Russia is not currently fighting with all its personnel, with all means and at full strength. I am 29, I am a man, all my friends live peacefully and not a single one participates in the SVO. Russia does not fight with all means, as, for example, Israel does in Palestine. Russia does not fight according to the NATO principle, when everything around is turned to ashes by bombs. BUT THIS COULD START SOON. I don’t think anyone really wants this, neither from Russia nor from the West.
最重要的是要記?。憾砹_斯被燒毀的次數(shù)和它的敵人被打敗的次數(shù)一樣多。
在俄羅斯，主要的價值觀是家庭，親人：父母，兄弟姐妹，孩子，朋友。現(xiàn)在我們感覺不到來自烏克蘭和西方的威脅；世界各地總是出現(xiàn)局部沖突。大多數(shù)俄羅斯公民繼續(xù)過著和平的生活，很少感受到戰(zhàn)爭的存在。但是! 但是，如果我們每個人都感到我們的祖國、我們的家園，最后，我們的家人和朋友受到威脅，那么每個人都會拿起武器，必要時，為這一切獻出生命(即使是女人，比如1969年的我母親，如果有必要，我也不介意打仗)。相信我，我們的生命代價將會非常高昂。即使我們突然失敗，即使我們都死了，我們也會帶走盡可能多的敵人，也許是所有的敵人。俄羅斯目前并沒有動用所有人員、所有手段和全部力量進行戰(zhàn)斗。我29歲，我是一個男人，我所有的朋友都過著和平的生活，沒有一個人參加特別軍事行動。俄羅斯不像以色列在巴勒斯坦那樣不擇手段。當周圍的一切都被炸彈變成灰燼時，俄羅斯不會按照北約的原則作戰(zhàn)。但這可能很快就會開始。我認為沒有人真的希望這樣，無論是俄羅斯還是西方。
What makes the glide bombs a game changers is the fact that the Russians have millions of them. They can keep throwing them for many years.
滑翔炸彈之所以能改變游戲規(guī)則，是因為俄羅斯擁有數(shù)以百萬計的滑翔炸彈。他們可以連續(xù)扔很多年。
DW and experts are learning russian way again in 21st century.
德國之聲和專家們在21世紀再次學習俄羅斯的方式。
Man these are descendants of people who put Yuri Gagarin into space , when Americans were still swinging in trees.
What do you expect from them , they're creative, very fast adaptable to multiple war situation. Good at chess, math and physics.
They can modify a dumb bomb very fast into a smart guided one if they put effort into it.
他們是把尤里·加加林送入太空的人的后代，當時美國人還在樹上晃蕩。
你對他們有什么期望，他們很有創(chuàng)造力，能很快適應(yīng)多種戰(zhàn)爭情況。擅長國際象棋、數(shù)學和物理。
他們可以很快地把一枚啞彈改裝成一枚智能制導炸彈，如果他們努力的話。
“FAB 3000” is a Game Changer not challenger 2 ,not Abrams & not Leopard
游戲規(guī)則改變者是“FAB 3000”，不是挑戰(zhàn)者2，不是艾布拉姆斯或豹豹。
Russia is using 'old' missiles and at the same time creating new ones. In other words, it is renewing its arsenal thanks to Europe.
俄羅斯在使用“舊”導彈的同時也在制造新導彈。換句話說，多虧了歐洲，它正在更新自己的武器庫。
Navy veteran from the Kherson region Yuriy Bulbach said that he had been waiting for Russia for 30 years. RIA Novosti writes about this. He emphasized that he took the oath to his Motherland once and he has only one. Bulbach began serving in the Soviet army in the Black Sea Fleet. After that he was transferred to the Baltic. After the collapse of the Soviet unx, he refused to take the oath of office in Ukraine. Every year he raised the Soviet naval flag on holidays, without fear of persecution from Kiev. On May 9, Kyiv residents brought flowers to the Eternal Flame in the Park of Glory in the morning, despite the fact that the Ukrainian authorities The holiday was moved to May 8. The Victory Parade in Moscow was broadcast by many cable channels in the Odessa region.
來自赫爾松地區(qū)的海軍老兵尤里·巴爾巴赫說，他等待俄羅斯已經(jīng)30年了。俄新社對此進行了報道。他強調(diào)說，他對祖國宣誓過一次，他只有一個祖國。巴爾巴赫開始在蘇聯(lián)軍隊黑海艦隊服役。之后，他被調(diào)到波羅的海。蘇聯(lián)解體后，他拒絕在烏克蘭宣誓就職。每年他都會在節(jié)日升起蘇聯(lián)海軍的旗幟，不怕基輔的迫害。5月9日上午，基輔居民帶著鮮花來到榮耀公園的永恒之火前，盡管烏克蘭當局將節(jié)日改到了5月8日。敖德薩地區(qū)的許多有線電視頻道播出了莫斯科的勝利游行。
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soviet weapons were mass produced with so much care and THOUGHTFUL disdain for defeating the US...
蘇聯(lián)大規(guī)模生產(chǎn)武器是為了打敗美國，這是精心設(shè)計的。
it's sad that all those young men are being sent to die
那些年輕人都被送去送死，真令人難過。
Now thats power! No holding back
這就是力量! 毫無保留。
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Every piece of Russian military equipment is cheaper, and often better, than it's American equivalent. Cheaper in development, production ánd maintenance. The difference is significant, ranging from 1/2 price to 1/10 or less. This is not at all unique to these glide bombs. Btw, it's not that their equipment is no cheap...it's that US equipment is extremely expensive.
俄羅斯的每一件軍事裝備都比美國的同類產(chǎn)品更便宜，而且往往更好。開發(fā)，生產(chǎn)和維護都更便宜。差別很大，從1/2到1/10甚至更少。這一點并不是滑翔炸彈所獨有的。順便說一句，這并不是說他們的設(shè)備不便宜……而是美國的設(shè)備非常昂貴。
LOL. Good job DW, it only took you guys over 2 years to figure it out.
哈哈。干得好，DW，你們只花了2年多的時間就弄明白了。
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The less than honest 'expert' not mentioning that Russia blew off the Patriot systems to smithreens is so conspicuous and that's the reason why others have now stopped even talking about thier anti-missile systems whom they had vaunted as if they were invincible/infallible systems.
不誠實的“專家”沒有提到俄羅斯把愛國者系統(tǒng)炸成碎片，這是如此引人注目，這就是為什么其他人現(xiàn)在甚至不再談?wù)撍麄兊姆磳到y(tǒng)的原因，他們曾經(jīng)吹噓過它們是無敵/絕對可靠的系統(tǒng)。
This is ok. But what about those mighty russian shovels?
沒關(guān)系。但是那些強大的俄羅斯鐵鍬呢?
These bombs actually have glide wings made out of shovels and washing machine gps as a brain...
這些炸彈實際上是由用鏟子做成的滑翔翼，用洗衣機的GPS作為大腦構(gòu)成的……
Sad all around. War is brutal.
悲傷四處彌漫。戰(zhàn)爭是殘酷的。
You mean to tell me those flying shovels are actually working? What next, turtle tanks?
你是說那些飛行鏟子真的起作用了嗎? 下一個是什么，烏龜缸嗎?
Russian Kalashnikov will always hold the record for highest body count, why would he get new toy when something indestructible n reliable compared to the new toys?
俄羅斯的卡拉什尼科夫步槍一直保持著最高死亡人數(shù)的記錄，既然與新玩具相比，他擁有堅不可摧和可靠的東西，為什么他要買新玩具?
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russia has so much of those bomb from the soviet eras now being put to use against Ukraine...
俄羅斯有這么多蘇聯(lián)時代的炸彈，現(xiàn)在被用來對付烏克蘭……
it's not about how advance , it's about how effective.
重要的不是有多先進，而是有多有效。
A great example of military adaptation and innovation. Cheap and effective.
這是軍事適應(yīng)和創(chuàng)新的一個很好的例子。既便宜又有效。
how dare they use old munition they sould be ashamed of them selves
他們怎么敢使用他們自己都該感到羞恥的舊武器。
Those washing machines sure make an impact when they hit the ground.
當然那些洗衣機一落地就會產(chǎn)生沖擊力。
How many of these old Soviet bombs you have?
Russia: YES.
你有多少老式蘇聯(lián)炸彈?
俄羅斯：有的是。
People who think that Ukraine is winning are living in denial. They seek comfort in subjective reality and ignore all the facts.
那些認為烏克蘭正在獲勝的人是在否認現(xiàn)實。他們在主觀現(xiàn)實中尋求安慰，而忽略了所有的事實。
"If it kills, then it works."
“能殺人就是好東西?！?/b>
American Military Industrial Complex: Main priority-Profitability
Russian Military- Efficiency and effectiveness!
美國軍工聯(lián)合體主要優(yōu)先考慮:盈利能力，
俄羅斯軍隊：效率和效力!
Simple Analog technology isn't affected by digital electronic warfare.
簡單模擬技術(shù)不受數(shù)字電子戰(zhàn)的影響。
Russia has only shovel
俄羅斯只有鐵鍬。
these are some powerful bombs with shovels as wings
這些是一些威力巨大的炸彈，用鏟子做翅膀。
When Russia finally pulls off the gloves, Ukraine gon learn
當俄羅斯最終脫下手套時，烏克蘭將吸取教訓。
Necessity gives birth to innovation
需求催生創(chuàng)新。
The first tid-bits of reality ever heard on DW News:
" There's probably two or three reasons 'why Ukraine hasn't gotten many western defence systems' You need crews to operate them; have missiles to fire from them. It's not just a case of giving Ukraine a piece of equipment; we have to give them the capability to use it". or:
"if you see what happens in Ukraine and you haven't got many of these systems yourself and you haven't got enough for your own country and you're not sure where you're going to get another one from' would you be willing to give the one you have to Ukraine or do you keep the one you have ?"
IT IS TRAGIC THAT THE USA WON'T LET -DID NOT LET UKRAINE AGREE in BELARUS AND ISTANBUL. THIS IS AN UNNECESSARY WAR.
在德國之聲新聞中聽到的第一個現(xiàn)實片段:
“烏克蘭沒有得到很多西方防御系統(tǒng)可能有兩三個原因。需要工作人員來操作它們；從那里發(fā)射導彈。這不僅僅是給烏克蘭一件裝備的問題；我們必須讓他們有能力使用它?！被蛘?
“如果你看到烏克蘭發(fā)生的事情，你自己沒有很多這樣的系統(tǒng)，你自己的國家沒有足夠的系統(tǒng)，你不確定你將從哪里獲得另一個系統(tǒng)，你愿意把你的東西給烏克蘭還是自己留著?”
可悲的是，美國沒有讓烏克蘭在白俄羅斯和伊斯坦布爾達成協(xié)議。這是一場不必要的戰(zhàn)爭。
Of course everyone has to make it sound like some kind of hillbilly rig. Russia has had PGM for decades. They were the first to field a guided artillery round and the first to use one in combat. The US used Vietnam era bombs in Iraq with JDAM bolt on kits. The Paveway, the US' LASER guided bomb, is a bolt on kit (my dad worked on the assembly line for them at TI right after he got out of the Navy). The only thing 'new' for Russia, about these bombs, is the glide kit which is a bit more sophisticated than a simple GPS guided gravity bomb.
當然每個人都得把它說得像鄉(xiāng)巴佬的玩意。俄羅斯擁有PGM已經(jīng)幾十年了。他們是第一個發(fā)射制導炮彈的國家，也是第一個在戰(zhàn)斗中使用制導炮彈的國家。美國在伊拉克使用了越南時代的炸彈，在套件上安裝了可拆卸的JDAM。寶石路，美國的激光制導炸彈，就是一種可拆卸套件(我爸爸從海軍退役后就在德州儀器的裝配線上為他們工作)。對俄羅斯來說，這些炸彈唯一的“新”之處是滑翔套件，它比簡單的GPS制導重力炸彈要復雜一點。
Russia in tatters according to Von der Lion
根據(jù)馮·德·萊恩的說法，俄羅斯已經(jīng)支離破碎。
So, at the beginning he said that is only FAB-250. These days FAB-1500 is in use...
所以，一開始他說那只是FAB-250。現(xiàn)在使用的是FAB-1500……
20k USD is the same as 2 western 155mm unguided artillery shell lol
2萬美元相當于2枚西方155毫米非制導炮彈，哈哈。
thoose shovels knows how to dig some soil
那些鐵鍬知道怎么挖土。
Now THAT is smart.
這很聰明。
500 and 3000 is on the way
500和3000都在路上了。
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That is Economics 101! The effect is the one that matters not the cost!
這就是經(jīng)濟學101! 效果才是最重要的，而不是成本!
If America had Russia's way of thinking about cost effectiveness and resourcefulness we wouldn't have the massive deficit we have today
如果美國有俄羅斯思考成本效益和足智多謀的方式，他們就不會有今天的巨額赤字。
One Forbes article earlier reads:
Don’t Fear Russia’s 3.3-Ton Glide-Bomb. It’s Massive Overkill When A 1.1-Ton Glide-Bomb Will Kill You Just Fine.
Wonder how the soldiers on the receiving end are supposed to think when they see this article
《福布斯》早些時候的一篇文章寫道:
不要害怕俄羅斯3.3噸的滑翔炸彈。當一枚1.1噸重的滑翔炸彈就能殺死你的時候，3噸的威力就過剩了。
不知道當士兵們看到這篇文章時，他們會怎么想。
"Only" 250kgs and then this. Imagine what the 1.500kg and bigger ones do. This is just proof of Russian ingenuity and adaptability.
"只有" 250公斤，然后是這個。想象一下1500公斤或更大的玩意會是什么威力。這證明了俄羅斯人的聰明才智和適應(yīng)能力。
Life is not a video game
生活不是一場電子游戲。
other news : why old boeing planes are more effective
其他新聞：為什么老的波音飛機效果更好。
Russian Glide Rockets are definitely very very effective they are learning!!!!!!!!!!!
俄羅斯滑翔火箭絕對非常非常有效，他們正在學習!!
horrible war loses on both sides Prayers
可怕的戰(zhàn)爭讓雙方都輸了，祈禱。
Love the honesty of the expert
喜歡這個專家的誠實。
The biggest issue nobody is talking about is that Ukraine has lost its fighting spirit. Just the fact that they have to draft men into service is proof that not enough men are willing to risk their lives for their country. But it's a lot worse in reality: Those drafted overwhelmingly refuse being drafted. The worst they have to face is a fine. And don't get me wrong, I would do the same thing. I'd rather go into debt for the rest of my life rather than lose my life on the front lines. And most of those who go into service right now WILL die. This dynamic is not something Ukraine can survive. No country in a war can survive the unwillingness of its citizens to fight.
最大問題沒有人談?wù)?，就是烏克蘭已經(jīng)失去了戰(zhàn)斗精神。他們必須征召男性入伍，這一事實本身就證明，愿意為國冒生命危險的男性還不夠多。但現(xiàn)實情況要糟糕得多：被征召入伍的人絕大多數(shù)都拒絕被征召入伍。他們要面對的最壞情況就是罰款。別誤會，我也會這么做的。我寧愿負債一生也不愿在前線犧牲生命。而現(xiàn)在投入服役的大多數(shù)人將會死去。這種動態(tài)不是烏克蘭能夠承受的。在戰(zhàn)爭中，沒有一個國家能在其公民不愿戰(zhàn)斗的情況下幸存下來。
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In total, Russia fought for 489 years with 25 countries, that is, almost every year, if we count history from the 15th century. Sometimes she fought with several countries at the same time, so there were breaks in the series of wars. But there were definitely fewer peaceful years than war years.
總的來說，俄羅斯與25個國家打了489年的仗，也就是說，如果我們把15世紀以來的歷史計算在內(nèi)，幾乎每年都打。有時她同時與幾個國家作戰(zhàn)，所以在一系列戰(zhàn)爭中有間歇。但和平年代肯定比戰(zhàn)爭年代少。