為什么哥倫布被認(rèn)為是意大利人，而他很可能是加泰羅尼亞人（和猶太人），并且從未用意大利語(yǔ)寫過(guò)或說(shuō)過(guò)意大利語(yǔ)？

Why is Columbus considered Italian when he was likely Catalan (and Jewish) and never wrote or spoke Italian?

2024-10-24 大號(hào)兒童 3225 15 2 收藏糾錯(cuò)&舉報(bào)

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網(wǎng)友：歷史學(xué)家普遍認(rèn)為，哥倫布的家庭來(lái)自利古里亞沿海地區(qū)，他的少年時(shí)期和早年生活在熱那亞共和國(guó)的熱那亞市，在維科·迪里托（Vico Diritto）度過(guò)，隨后他搬到薩沃納，那時(shí)他的父親多梅尼科于1470年遷居在那里。這些證據(jù)大多來(lái)自關(guān)于哥倫布直系親屬在熱那亞的關(guān)系以及同時(shí)代人對(duì)他熱那亞出身的看法......

正文翻譯

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Emilio Garavaglia
The answer is in the exact article you lixed:

答案就在你提供的那篇文章中：
原創(chuàng)翻譯：龍騰網(wǎng) http://mintwatchbillionaireclub.com 轉(zhuǎn)載請(qǐng)注明出處

-It is generally agreed upon by historians that Columbus' family was from the coastal region of Liguria, that he spent his boyhood and early youth in the Republic of Genoa, in Genoa, in Vico Diritto, and that he subsequently lived in Savona, where his father Domenico moved in 1470. Much of this evidence derives from data concerning Columbus' immediate family connections in Genoa and opinions voiced by contemporaries concerning his Genoese origins

歷史學(xué)家普遍認(rèn)為，哥倫布的家庭來(lái)自利古里亞沿海地區(qū)，他的少年時(shí)期和早年生活在熱那亞共和國(guó)的熱那亞市，在維科·迪里托（Vico Diritto）度過(guò)，隨后他搬到薩沃納，那時(shí)他的父親多梅尼科于1470年遷居在那里。這些證據(jù)大多來(lái)自關(guān)于哥倫布直系親屬在熱那亞的關(guān)系以及同時(shí)代人對(duì)他熱那亞出身的看法。

Not to mention that part of the actual Catalonia (Barcellona area in particular) as the actual France “Cote Azure” at his own ages where part of Genoa’s protectorate, so it was perfectly normal to have people moving up and down the south continental coast. Especially if they where sailors

更不用說(shuō)，實(shí)際上加泰羅尼亞（特別是巴塞羅那地區(qū)）和當(dāng)時(shí)的法國(guó)“蔚藍(lán)海岸”在他那個(gè)年代都是熱那亞的保護(hù)領(lǐng)土，因此沿著南歐大陸沿海移動(dòng)的人是完全正常的，尤其是如果他們是水手的話。

About the language, it’s perfectly normal he did not speak Italian, since there was no Italian language to speak at those ages (Italy was founded in 1861)

關(guān)于語(yǔ)言，他不講意大利語(yǔ)是完全正常的，因?yàn)樵谀莻€(gè)時(shí)代并不存在意大利語(yǔ)（意大利于1861年成立）。

And even today, The Liguirian local language is much more similar to Portugase and Catalan than it is from italian. (If you listen certain strict Genovese speech keeping you eyes closed … you can feel like in Brazil!)

甚至今天，利古里亞地方語(yǔ)言與葡萄牙語(yǔ)和加泰羅尼亞語(yǔ)的相似性遠(yuǎn)超過(guò)意大利語(yǔ)。（如果你閉上眼睛聽(tīng)某些特定的熱那亞方言，你會(huì)感覺(jué)像在巴西?。?/b>

Alessandro Caredda
The concept of “Italy”, and “Italian”, as a language, existed well before the foundation of the Kindom of Italy in 1861. Nevertheless it’s true that Italian has been mainly used for centuries as a written language, and spoken local languages in what is now Italy where (and still are) often very different from Italian.

“意大利”和“意大利語(yǔ)”作為一種語(yǔ)言的概念早在1861年意大利王國(guó)成立之前就已存在。然而，意大利語(yǔ)在幾個(gè)世紀(jì)以來(lái)主要作為書面語(yǔ)言使用，而如今意大利境內(nèi)的地方口語(yǔ)（和現(xiàn)在的情況一樣）常常與意大利語(yǔ)非常不同。

Emilio Garavaglia
The “italian” of 1400 has very few to do with modern Italian and was far from being standardized. The “written language” of Vernice and the “written language” of Tuscany where not the same anyhow. And Even Dante’s Italian sounds like a foreign language today. (unless until “fiere” means “exhibitions” and not “wild animals”…), I understand there is a certain rhetoric beside the humanistic communities (especially if educated in the Gentilian school) to “sell” the idea of a “unified italy” since the fall of Rome, up the unification. But that was far to be a real thing:

1400年的“意大利語(yǔ)”與現(xiàn)代意大利語(yǔ)關(guān)系不大，且遠(yuǎn)未實(shí)現(xiàn)標(biāo)準(zhǔn)化。威尼斯的“書面語(yǔ)言”和托斯卡納的“書面語(yǔ)言”根本不是同一種語(yǔ)言。而且，即使是但丁的意大利語(yǔ)今天聽(tīng)起來(lái)也像是一種外語(yǔ)。（除非“fiere”是指“展覽”，而不是“野生動(dòng)物”……）我理解在人文主義社群中（尤其是受過(guò)詹蒂利安學(xué)派教育的人）有某種修辭來(lái)“推銷”自羅馬滅亡以來(lái)一直存在的“統(tǒng)一意大利”的理念，直到統(tǒng)一的實(shí)現(xiàn)。但這遠(yuǎn)未成為現(xiàn)實(shí)：

Alessandro Caredda
That's true, but I was just writing about the “concept” of Italy and Italian language, both predating 1861.

這是真的，但我只是想說(shuō)“意大利”和意大利語(yǔ)言的“概念”，這兩者都早于1861年。

Paul Paracchini
When Dante in the 1300’s was getting ready to write his masterpiece, “The Divine Comedy” educated Tuscans communicated in Latin, the local, “vulgar” language of the common folk or Proven?al a “l(fā)angue d’oc” vernacular related to Catalan, Proven?al was the “l(fā)ingua franca” of diplomacy and commerce for all who lived between the “Spanish Mark” (Catalonia) and throughout what today is the south of France, all the way into Italy (notably Liguria and the Piedmont) down along the Italian coast into Tuscany. In the end, Dante opted to write his “Divina Commedia” in the Tuscan vernacular, which became the benchmark for modern “Italian”.

在14世紀(jì)，當(dāng)?shù)?zhǔn)備寫他的杰作《神曲》時(shí)，受過(guò)教育的托斯卡納人使用拉丁語(yǔ)交流，地方上普通民眾的“俗語(yǔ)”或普羅旺斯語(yǔ)是一種與加泰羅尼亞語(yǔ)相關(guān)的“oc語(yǔ)言”，普羅旺斯語(yǔ)是生活在“西班牙邊界”（加泰羅尼亞）到現(xiàn)在法國(guó)南部，直到意大利（特別是利古里亞和皮埃蒙特）沿著意大利海岸到托斯卡納地區(qū)的所有人之間的外交和商業(yè)“通用語(yǔ)”。最終，但丁選擇用托斯卡納方言寫他的《神曲》，這成為現(xiàn)代“意大利語(yǔ)”的基準(zhǔn)。

When France began to unite and French developed into the “national” language there was much rivalry between the langue d’ceil of the North vs. the langue d’oc of the South. Over time, the langue d’ceil of the North won out because it was the language spoken by the rulers of the “Ile de France” which in the end united all of the French-speaking territories.

當(dāng)法國(guó)開(kāi)始統(tǒng)一，法語(yǔ)發(fā)展為“國(guó)家”語(yǔ)言時(shí)，北方的“oc語(yǔ)言”和南方的“oc語(yǔ)言”之間存在很大的競(jìng)爭(zhēng)。隨著時(shí)間的推移，北方的“oc語(yǔ)言”勝出，因?yàn)樗恰胺ㄌm西島”統(tǒng)治者所使用的語(yǔ)言，最終統(tǒng)一了所有講法語(yǔ)的領(lǐng)土。

But had Dante’s Divine Comedy been written in Proven?al, a language spoken by millions along the Mediterranean Coast from the Spanish Mark across France and into Italy it might have become the Beowulf of a much larger community, in time uniting more than just the Catalans or the Tuscans, laying the foundations for a much larger unx of “l(fā)atin-speaking” peoples. A fascinating thought!

但是，如果但丁的《神曲》是用普羅旺斯語(yǔ)寫成的，這種語(yǔ)言在從西班牙邊界穿過(guò)法國(guó)到意大利的地中海沿岸有數(shù)百萬(wàn)人使用，那么它可能會(huì)成為一個(gè)更大社區(qū)的《貝奧武夫》，隨著時(shí)間的推移，不僅將加泰羅尼亞人或托斯卡納人團(tuán)結(jié)在一起，還為更大規(guī)模的“拉丁語(yǔ)系”民族的聯(lián)合奠定基礎(chǔ)。這真是一個(gè)引人入勝的想法！

Peter de Loriol
Added to which his name was Cristoforo Colombo, not Columbus. One of his descendants was at my school - and his name was Cristofo Colombo, a spaniard, although his ancestor was from Liguria.

再者，他的名字是克里斯托弗·哥倫布，而不是哥倫布。他的一個(gè)后代曾在我的學(xué)校上學(xué)——他的名字是克里斯托?！じ鐐惒?，是個(gè)西班牙人，盡管他的祖先來(lái)自利古里亞。

Emilio Garavaglia
Columbus is nothing more than how his surname is translated to English… Spanish -by the way- use to call him “Cristobal Colon”

哥倫布不過(guò)是他的姓氏翻譯成英語(yǔ)的方式……順便說(shuō)一下，西班牙人通常稱他為“克里斯托瓦爾·科隆”。

Peter de Loriol
Maybe that WAS the case. But this Spaniard who was at my school, was a great friend of another Spaniard at my school, a certain Francisco Franco, nephew of the caudillo.

也許事實(shí)就是如此。但是這個(gè)在我學(xué)校的西班牙人，是我學(xué)校另一個(gè)西班牙人的好朋友，一個(gè)叫弗朗西斯科·佛朗哥的人，是考迪羅的侄子。

Assistant
The identity of Christopher Columbus has been a topic of debate among historians, particularly regarding his nationality and background. Here are some key points to consider:

克里斯托弗·哥倫布的身份一直是歷史學(xué)家爭(zhēng)論的話題，特別是關(guān)于他的國(guó)籍和背景。以下是一些關(guān)鍵點(diǎn)：

Birthplace and National Identity: Columbus was born in Genoa, which is in modern-day Italy. During his lifetime, the political landscape of Italy was fragmented into various city-states, and national identities were not as clearly defined as they are today. Thus, he is often referred to as Italian because of his birthplace.

出生地和國(guó)籍認(rèn)同：哥倫布出生于熱那亞，位于現(xiàn)代意大利境內(nèi)。在他生活的時(shí)代，意大利的政治格局分散為多個(gè)城市國(guó)家，國(guó)籍認(rèn)同并不像今天那么明確。因此，他通常被稱為意大利人，因?yàn)樗某錾亍?/b>

Cultural Influences: While Columbus's family may have had Catalan connections, and some theories suggest he could have had Jewish ancestry, there is no definitive evidence to confirm these claims. His writings show influences from various cultures, but the predominant language he used for his official correspondence was Spanish, reflecting his long-term service to the Spanish crown.

文化影響：雖然哥倫布的家族可能與加泰羅尼亞有聯(lián)系，還有一些理論認(rèn)為他可能有猶太血統(tǒng)，但沒(méi)有確鑿的證據(jù)來(lái)證實(shí)這些說(shuō)法。他的著作顯示出多種文化的影響，但他在官方信件中使用的主要語(yǔ)言是西班牙語(yǔ)，這反映了他長(zhǎng)期為西班牙王室服務(wù)的事實(shí)。
原創(chuàng)翻譯：龍騰網(wǎng) http://mintwatchbillionaireclub.com 轉(zhuǎn)載請(qǐng)注明出處

Language: Columbus wrote primarily in Spanish, and there is little evidence that he spoke Italian fluently. His documents and letters are mostly in Spanish, which he used during his voyages and interactions with the Spanish monarchy.

語(yǔ)言：哥倫布主要用西班牙語(yǔ)寫作，幾乎沒(méi)有證據(jù)表明他流利地講意大利語(yǔ)。他的文件和信件大多是用西班牙語(yǔ)寫成的，這是他在航行和與西班牙王室互動(dòng)時(shí)所使用的語(yǔ)言。

Historical Context: The narrative of Columbus as an Italian explorer was solidified in the 19th century when national identities became more pronounced. His voyages were significant in the context of Spanish exploration and colonization, leading to his association with Spain more than with Italy or any other region.

歷史背景：在19世紀(jì)，當(dāng)民族身份變得更加明顯時(shí)，哥倫布作為意大利探險(xiǎn)家的敘述得到了鞏固。他的航行在西班牙的探索和殖民背景中具有重要意義，因此他與西班牙的關(guān)聯(lián)遠(yuǎn)超過(guò)與意大利或其他地區(qū)的關(guān)聯(lián)。

Legacy and Mythology: Over time, Columbus has become a symbol of exploration and discovery, often overshadowing the complexities of his identity. The focus has shifted more towards his achievements and their consequences rather than his personal background.
In summary, Columbus is considered Italian primarily due to his birthplace in Genoa and the historical context surrounding his life. The theories about his Catalan or Jewish heritage remain speculative and have not been conclusively proven.

遺產(chǎn)和神話：隨著時(shí)間的推移，哥倫布已成為探索和發(fā)現(xiàn)的象征，這往往掩蓋了他身份的復(fù)雜性。人們的關(guān)注點(diǎn)更多地轉(zhuǎn)向了他的成就及其后果，而不是他的個(gè)人背景。
總之，哥倫布之所以被認(rèn)為是意大利人，主要是因?yàn)樗錾跓崮莵喴约皣@他生活的歷史背景。關(guān)于他加泰羅尼亞或猶太血統(tǒng)的理論仍然是推測(cè)性的，尚未得到確鑿證明。
原創(chuàng)翻譯：龍騰網(wǎng) http://mintwatchbillionaireclub.com 轉(zhuǎn)載請(qǐng)注明出處

Eorl Renato Sven
did you even read the lixed wiki page?
there are many hypoteses: that he was Catalan, Jewish, Greek, Portuguese, Polish, or from Sardinia, Corsica, Norway, Scotland.. or from another planet!!!
but the conclusion is that he was almost certainly from Genoa.
look at the “The testimony of the ambassadors” as well as “Support for the Genoese origin from contemporary European writers” paragraphs!

你有認(rèn)真閱讀鏈接的維基頁(yè)面嗎？
有很多假設(shè)：他可能是加泰羅尼亞人、猶太人、希臘人、葡萄牙人、波蘭人，或者來(lái)自撒丁島、科西嘉島、挪威、蘇格蘭……甚至可能來(lái)自其他星球！?。?br /> 但結(jié)論是他幾乎可以肯定來(lái)自熱那亞。看看“使節(jié)的證詞”以及“來(lái)自當(dāng)代歐洲作家的對(duì)熱那亞起源的支持”這兩個(gè)段落！

Ryan Privee
I’d heard years ago on the History Channel he was likely Catalan and Jewish. There’s also no need to be rude in your answer, perhaps it is something lost in translation if you’re from Italy…

我?guī)啄昵霸跉v史頻道聽(tīng)說(shuō)他可能是加泰羅尼亞人和猶太人。你的回答中沒(méi)有必要這么無(wú)禮，也許如果你來(lái)自意大利，這在翻譯上有所誤解……

Marc Monereo Cuscó
I agree and Catalan and Genovese can be related languages but Barcelona and her area NEVER have been part of Genoa.

我同意，加泰羅尼亞語(yǔ)和熱那亞語(yǔ)是相關(guān)的語(yǔ)言，但巴塞羅那及其周邊地區(qū)從來(lái)沒(méi)有屬于熱那亞。

Stanley Maragos
Language is not the main reason to establish nationality. I think the nationality you believe you belong accounts the most . Birth place too . About Italy it’s hard to understand a Sicilian or a person from bari sounds like a different language . I did study Italian ,and visit Italy , in Genova was no problem. As for Colombo I don’t know that much , but I know he had an affair with queen Isabela , ferdinado find out , and he wanted to get ridd mr Chris so he gave him the 4 ships , to keep his wife . I don’t know if was true but was rumor, who knows the true . People moved around Europe as the do today ,I believe he was Italian , his crew I think was Italian as Americo Vespucci , again I can be wrong , the only things I know I’m right is what I see with my own eyes , internet is full of false statements, some from goverments propaganda, or people who quess what happen many years ago .any way America war discovered many years before Colombo , the Indians look like north east Siberians crossing the icy sea to Alaska .

語(yǔ)言并不是確定國(guó)籍的主要原因。我認(rèn)為你認(rèn)為自己屬于哪個(gè)國(guó)籍才是最重要的。出生地也是如此。在意大利，理解西西里人或來(lái)自巴里的人的語(yǔ)言是很困難的。我學(xué)習(xí)過(guò)意大利語(yǔ)，也訪問(wèn)過(guò)意大利，在熱那亞沒(méi)有問(wèn)題。至于哥倫布，我了解得不多，但我知道他與伊莎貝拉女王有染，費(fèi)迪南德發(fā)現(xiàn)后想要擺脫哥倫布，所以給了他四艘船，以便保住他的妻子。我不知道這是否屬實(shí)，但這是個(gè)傳聞，誰(shuí)知道真相。人們?cè)跉W洲各地遷移，和今天一樣，我相信他是意大利人，他的船員我認(rèn)為也是意大利人，就像亞美利哥·維斯普奇一樣，當(dāng)然我也可能錯(cuò)了。我唯一知道的是我所看到的，互聯(lián)網(wǎng)充滿了虛假的陳述，有些是來(lái)自政府的宣傳，或者人們對(duì)許多年前發(fā)生的事情的猜測(cè)。不管怎樣，美國(guó)在哥倫布之前很多年就已經(jīng)被發(fā)現(xiàn)，印第安人的外貌看起來(lái)像從西伯利亞?wèn)|北部穿越冰海來(lái)到阿拉斯加的人。

Rosina L. Wachtel
Some people claim that Columbus was Chinese, or a Muslim descended from the Moors. Why is it so difficult to accept that Columbus was a (very) Christian Italian from Genoa? Sometimes a chair is just a chair.

有些人聲稱哥倫布是中國(guó)人，或者是穆斯林后裔，來(lái)自摩爾人。為什么這么難以接受哥倫布是一個(gè)（非常）虔誠(chéng)的意大利人，來(lái)自熱那亞？有時(shí)候椅子就是椅子而已。

Alberto Formenti
Because, as wrote Emilio Garavaglia he was from Liguria, so he was actually Italian

因?yàn)?，正如埃米利奧·加拉瓦利亞所寫，他來(lái)自利古里亞，所以他實(shí)際上是意大利人。

Kevin Todd Clepps
He and his family did live in Italy though they were almost certainly Sephardi Jews that converted to Roman Catholicism .

他和他的家人確實(shí)住在意大利，盡管他們幾乎可以肯定是塞法爾迪猶太人，后來(lái)改信了羅馬天主教。

Vivien Tarkirk-Smith
Columbus was an evil murdering European who had huge numbers of friendly helpful aboriginal people murdered or enslaved. Who wants to claim him?

哥倫布是一個(gè)邪惡的歐洲殺人犯，他殺害或奴役了大量友好的、樂(lè)于助人的土著人。誰(shuí)想認(rèn)領(lǐng)他？

哥倫布 意大利人 加泰羅尼亞人 猶太人 意大利語(yǔ)

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為什么哥倫布被認(rèn)為是意大利人，而他很可能是加泰羅尼亞人（和猶太人），并且從未用意大利語(yǔ)寫過(guò)或說(shuō)過(guò)意大利語(yǔ)？

為什么哥倫布被認(rèn)為是意大利人，而他很可能是加泰羅尼亞人（和猶太人），并且從未用意大利語(yǔ)寫過(guò)或說(shuō)過(guò)意大利語(yǔ)？