印度是否應(yīng)繼續(xù)作為一個世俗國家?
Should India remain a secular nation?譯文簡介
網(wǎng)友:印度可以繼續(xù)作為一個世俗國家。1. 我們尊重每個宗教各自的信仰;2. 我們不會以任何方式強迫任何人皈依;3. 我們對所有公民適用同樣的法律規(guī)則,不論其宗教、信仰、種姓信仰。4. 最重要的是,我們首先是印度人,然后才是我們的宗教信仰。
正文翻譯
V M Sarma Jana
India can remain a secular country provided
1. We respect each religion, on its own beliefs
2. We do not force any conversion, by any means,
3. We apply the same Rules of law to all citizens irrespective of religion, belief, caste creed.
4. Most important, we are Indians first, before asserting our religion.
印度可以繼續(xù)作為一個世俗國家
1. 我們尊重每個宗教各自的信仰
2. 我們不會以任何方式強迫任何人皈依,
3. 我們對所有公民適用同樣的法律規(guī)則,不論其宗教、信仰、種姓信仰。
4. 最重要的是,我們首先是印度人,然后才是我們的宗教信仰。
India can remain a secular country provided
1. We respect each religion, on its own beliefs
2. We do not force any conversion, by any means,
3. We apply the same Rules of law to all citizens irrespective of religion, belief, caste creed.
4. Most important, we are Indians first, before asserting our religion.
印度可以繼續(xù)作為一個世俗國家
1. 我們尊重每個宗教各自的信仰
2. 我們不會以任何方式強迫任何人皈依,
3. 我們對所有公民適用同樣的法律規(guī)則,不論其宗教、信仰、種姓信仰。
4. 最重要的是,我們首先是印度人,然后才是我們的宗教信仰。
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Depends on what is your definition of Secularism is. In India, for past 50 years Secularism has been misused and misinterpreted by Political parties to suite their ideologies. Asaduddin Owaisi considers himself Secular being a Supremo of Communal party that works for vested interest and to some extent community and religious interest of one section. BJP is anyway tagged as Communal party by all mainstream Media while the same media considers Owaisi Brethren as Seculars and remain mum on their vitriolic speeches. You must be talking about Political Secularism and Not Social Secularism. Truly speaking none of them going to work in India for sure.
這要看你對世俗主義的定義是什么。在印度,過去50年來,世俗主義被政治黨派濫用和誤解,以適應(yīng)他們的意識形態(tài)。阿薩杜丁·奧瓦伊西自認為是世俗的,但他是一個為特定利益、以及某一社區(qū)和宗教利益服務(wù)的宗派黨的首領(lǐng)。無論如何,BJP被所有主流媒體貼上了宗派黨的標簽,而同樣的媒體卻認為歐韋西的支持者是世俗的,并對他們的尖刻言論保持沉默。你說的肯定是政治上的世俗主義,而不是社會上的世俗主義。說實話,這兩者在印度都不會真正有效。
在觀察全球地緣政治和地緣政治歷史后,我認為世俗主義在單一宗教國家中運作得很好,但在印度、美國和歐洲這樣的多元社會中,世俗主義總是會面臨風(fēng)險和被濫用。
巴基斯坦作為一個單一宗教國家可以實現(xiàn)世俗化。世俗主義在沙特阿拉伯、也門、伊朗等純粹伊斯蘭國家中表現(xiàn)得最好。原因很簡單,只有在宗教國家中,你才能將宗教和宗教利益與政治隔離。這并不意味著你會允許其他宗教主導(dǎo)一切。不是的。然而,我們完全誤解了世俗主義,因此開始了對其的誤解和濫用。
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你選擇了類似《夢幻之地》那種的世俗主義。
And here you are paying for such Secularism
而你在為這樣的世俗主義付出代價。
Because when you embrace Multi Religious and multi belief denominations into your geopolitical boundaries, it becomes your responsibility and accountability to entertain their religious ideology into your Socio Political sphere. This clearly defies the basic tenets of Secularism to isolate Religion from Politics.
You have two options. Persuade yourself by your emotions and that crude sense of Humanity or Learn from Experiences, History, Events and Evidences. Up to you which side you are on and you pay price accordingly
因為當(dāng)你在地緣政治邊界內(nèi)包容多宗教和多信仰的教派時,就意味著你有責(zé)任和義務(wù)將他們的宗教意識形態(tài)融入你的社會政治領(lǐng)域。這顯然違背了世俗主義的基本原則,即將宗教與政治分開。
你有兩個選擇。要么被情感和那種粗糙的人道主義所說服,要么從經(jīng)歷、歷史、事件和證據(jù)中學(xué)習(xí)。選擇哪一方在于你,而你將為此付出代價。
Unity in diversity is a rare beauty and our unique specialty, let us not loose it so easily. Let religion be a personal matter free from government interference, unless and until it creats a law and order problem.
多樣性中的團結(jié)是一種珍貴的美麗,也是我們獨特的特色,讓我們不要輕易失去它。讓宗教成為個人事務(wù),免于政府干預(yù),除非它造成法律和秩序的問題。
India is a Hindu majority country since thousands of years. Can anyone deny this?
Hindus and Hindutva culture and behaviour has been genuinely secular in its real sense. Please do not bite into the secularism theories of the Lutyens media as what they propagate is pseudo variety and is mostly used to indulge into minority appeasement and demeaning and bashing Hindus and their culture and traditions
幾千年來,印度一直是印度教占多數(shù)的國家。有人能否認這一點嗎?
印度教徒和印度教文化和行為在真正意義上是真正世俗的。請不要相信Lutyens媒體的世俗主義理論,因為他們傳播的是偽多樣性,主要用于沉迷于少數(shù)民族的綏綏化,貶低和抨擊印度教徒及其文化和傳統(tǒng)
Government and Religion are two different platforms and need to be separated with clear distinctions. There are individuals who are residents of India that come from various different religious backgrounds and also those who don’t want to be associated with any religion extensively. When Governing authorities are biased towards a specific religion (for eg. hinduism in India), it becomes unfair and lowered in its quality.
Secularization ensures that the highest quality of governance is being contributed to the citizens, with minimum explicit or implicit bias.
政府和宗教是兩個不同的平臺,需要明確區(qū)分并分開。印度有許多來自不同宗教背景的居民,還有一些人不希望與任何宗教有過多關(guān)聯(lián)。當(dāng)政府當(dāng)局對某一特定宗教(例如印度的印度教)表現(xiàn)出偏見時,這就變得不公平,影響了治理的質(zhì)量。
世俗化確保為公民提供最高質(zhì)量的治理,盡量減少明顯或隱性的偏見。
Secularism should be the policy of any society and country today and in our country and culture, it is imbedded since long. It has naturally been our habit, mentality and identity.
However pseudo-secularism as practised by some selfish, hypocrite leaders and self-proclaimed intellectuals is dangerous to our democracy and traditions.
世俗主義應(yīng)成為當(dāng)今任何社會和國家的政策,在我們的國家和文化中,它早已根深蒂固。這自然成了我們的習(xí)慣、心態(tài)和身份。然而,一些自私、虛偽的領(lǐng)導(dǎo)者和自稱知識分子所實踐的偽世俗主義對我們的民主和傳統(tǒng)是危險的。
Secularism as a state policy involves the state being neutral and fair in it's dealings with the common populace either because you don't want state policies to be retarded by religion if there's a state religion or you have to project fairness since there's more than one practiced or recognised religion .
作為國家政策的世俗主義要求國家在與普通民眾的交往中保持中立和公正,原因在于如果存在國家宗教,你不希望國家政策受到宗教的干擾;或者因為有不止一種被認可或?qū)嵺`的宗教,你必須展現(xiàn)公正。
The Indian government was noted in several regions they cannot be trusted to carry out duties of protecting her own people within a said community from their own community much less think further at different religions or groups. Just look at the Gulabi Gang or what happened recently in Manipur .
在印度,這個問題在于政府服務(wù)未能被信任,無法公正或勝任地履行職責(zé)。印度政府在一些地區(qū)被認為無法公正地保護某個社區(qū)內(nèi)的人民,更不用說在不同宗教或群體之間進行進一步的考慮??纯础胺奂t幫”或者最近在曼尼普爾發(fā)生的事件。
Hindus are the Majority of the country. They allowed the country to be a secular. But misuse of secularism ruined the country. Terrorists were given Biryani in a attack on Hazrat Bal Mosque.In Batala case , Encounter of the terrorists made Sonia Gandhi’s heart broken. But was silent about Hindu killing in train by burning the train. PFI and Terrorists organizations got legal support from secular people. No action has taken in Kasmir. No cries for Hindu killing in Kasmir. It is the story of minority politics over majority politics. Secularism emerged as a weapons against Hindus.
印度教徒是這個國家的主要人口。他們允許這個國家成為一個世俗國家。但是對世俗主義的濫用毀了這個國家。恐怖分子在襲擊哈茲拉特巴爾清真寺時得到了比亞尼。在巴塔拉事件中,恐怖分子的遭遇讓索尼婭·甘地心碎了。但對印度教徒在火車上被燒死一事保持沉默。PFI和恐怖組織得到了世俗人士的法律支持。在克什米爾沒有采取任何行動。不要為在克什米爾殺害印度教徒而哭泣。這是少數(shù)人政治戰(zhàn)勝多數(shù)人政治的故事。世俗主義成為反對印度教徒的武器。
他們從來沒有說過任何有利于戈達拉火車事故遇難者的話。他們批評對巴基斯坦的外科手術(shù)式打擊,但對克什米爾的印度教殺戮完全沉默。印度的世俗是地球上特有的物種。印度教徒天生是世俗的。如果印度教徒仍然占多數(shù),印度應(yīng)該保持世俗??纯茨切挠《确蛛x出來的國家?他們是世俗的嗎?印度教占多數(shù)意味著世俗主義。我們的政治領(lǐng)導(dǎo)人和政黨濫用這一點來對付印度教徒。
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No. Hinduism says, see God in everything, every one. You yourself a god. You can believe me, need not believe me, follow me, need not follow me. Still, you are a Hindu. You can question, you can search, research, you can refuse, you can accept, still you can be a Hindu.
The major but preferred to be called as minority religion says, our God only is the great. There is no God other than him. Kill the non believers.
不。印度教說,在每件事、每一個人身上看到上帝。你自己就是個神。你可以相信我,不必相信我,跟隨我,不必跟隨我。你畢竟是印度教徒。你可以質(zhì)疑,你可以探索,你可以研究,你可以拒絕,你可以接受,你仍然可以是一個印度教徒。
主要的但更愿意被稱為少數(shù)派的宗教說,我們的上帝是唯一偉大的。除了他以外,再沒有別的神了。殺死不信教的人。
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Why we have to spend our money, resources on them ? Just to get hurt back? We can use our resources on our development. Let them concentrate on their own welfare.
這個宗教在地球上是非常危險的。而不是追隨它的人的錯誤。他們就是這樣被教導(dǎo)和訓(xùn)練的。就像賽馬。不允許他們動腦筋,回答問題。只是側(cè)邊折了一下。所以,只能朝一個方向看。
為什么我們要把錢和資源花在他們身上?只是為了報復(fù)嗎?我們可以把資源用于發(fā)展。讓他們專注于自己的福利吧。
Never teach to hate or harm or spread the religion. We are not that bored and busy with our own lives.
Other abrahamic religions are not like that.
It's mandatory for them according to their book to spread, preach about their religion and convert .
印度教不理會其他宗教。
永遠不要教導(dǎo)仇恨或傷害或傳播宗教。我們對自己的生活并沒有那么無聊和忙碌。
其他亞伯拉罕宗教不是這樣的。
根據(jù)他們的書,他們必須傳播,宣講他們的宗教并皈依。
People may say, one will follow his heart. What's the problem? He has all the liberty to choose. Good. There should not be any problem.
But, in reality, they tray to brainwash, manipulate, force some times to follow the same like him.
Best example, there is this south Korean singer. Recently converted to Islam. Says, every corner of his country, soon islamic prayers will be heard. How?
What happened to various rich cultures on this earth after Christianity and Islam stepped in? No prizes for guessing.
有些人從事令人討厭的推銷員工作。
人們可能會說,一個人會跟隨自己的心。有什么問題嗎?他有選擇的自由。好。應(yīng)該不會有什么問題。
但是,在現(xiàn)實中,他們試圖洗腦,操縱,強迫一些人像他一樣跟隨。
最好的例子就是這位韓國歌手。最近皈依伊斯蘭教。他說,他的國家的每一個角落,很快就會聽到伊斯蘭教的祈禱。如何?
基督教和伊斯蘭教出現(xiàn)后,地球上各種豐富的文化發(fā)生了什么變化?沒有猜測的獎品。
In all muslim and Christian countries majority rule. Let majority rule here also. Anyway we don't convert or kill minorities like in those countries.
Get rid of this shitty secular term. Bring uniform civil code, impliment CAA,NRC, bring judiciary reforms.
People can practice whatever they believe within law. Not to behave as if they are above law.
以目前的形式,世俗主義對這個國家是危險的。
在所有的穆斯林和基督教國家,多數(shù)人統(tǒng)治。這里也讓多數(shù)決定吧。無論如何,我們不會像那些國家那樣改變或殺害少數(shù)民族。
去掉這個討厭的世俗術(shù)語。制定統(tǒng)一的民法典,實施民法典、民法典,進行司法改革。
在法律允許的范圍內(nèi),人們可以做任何他們相信的事情。不要表現(xiàn)得好像他們凌駕于法律之上。
By the way if anyone feels this is not suitable to their ideology, wants to migrate to those countries where their religion is followed, welcome them and arrange the conveyance facilities.
Don't let the camel throwing out the owner out of tent.
People need not beat their chests because all these religions are a forceful entries in to this country. For cheating or looting or invading.
否則,我們很快就會失去我們的身份和內(nèi)心的平靜。
順便說一下,如果有人覺得這不適合他們的意識形態(tài),想要移民到那些遵循他們宗教的國家,歡迎他們并安排運輸設(shè)施。
不要讓駱駝把主人趕出帳篷。
人們不需要拍胸脯,因為所有這些宗教都是進入這個國家的有力手段。因為欺騙、搶劫或侵略。
No need of have this most cunning and mis used term of secularism. It's really really dangerous to this country ‘s existence. You can't burden one religion to carry all other religions tantrums.
尊重這個國家并像其他人一樣遵守規(guī)則的人一定沒有任何問題。對于那些不想離開的人,門必須開著才能離開。
沒有必要使用這個最狡猾和被誤用的世俗主義術(shù)語。這對這個國家的存在是非常非常危險的。你不能讓一個宗教背負所有其他宗教的憤怒。
India has never been a secular nation in the 1st place…
When people in India debate secularism and communalism they often forget that secularism isn't one well-defined entity. There are three distinct forms of secularism.
印度從來就不是一個世俗國家……當(dāng)人們在印度討論世俗主義和宗教主義時,他們常常忽視了世俗主義并不是一個明確的概念。實際上,世俗主義有三種不同的形式。
印度所遵循的世俗主義形式允許不同宗教之間存在法律差異,尤其是在個人法方面。它允許孩子在宗教機構(gòu)中接受洗腦教育,而不是在學(xué)校接受教育。它允許以宗教的名義壓制女性的權(quán)利。它通過法律本身在不同宗教的人之間制造分裂。這不是世俗主義。
The second form of secularism is what China followed under the rule of Chairman M from 1949. The state actively suppressed religion in an attempt to create an atheist, secular state. Though this does lead to equality, it also crushes personal freedom. Secularism of this form would likely not be palatable to most Indians who hold religion as an essential part of their lives.
如果你不支持所有公民在法律面前平等對待,那么你就不是世俗的。第二種世俗主義是中國在1949年毛主席統(tǒng)治下所遵循的。國家積極壓制宗教,試圖建立一個無神論的世俗國家。盡管這確實導(dǎo)致了平等,但也壓制了個人自由。這種形式的世俗主義對大多數(shù)認為宗教是生活中重要部分的印度人來說,可能是不可接受的。
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第三種世俗主義是國家在宗教事務(wù)上保持中立。所有人都可以自由選擇自己的宗教,但法律對每個人都一樣。國家既不推廣也不壓制任何宗教。這是美國和大多數(shù)歐洲國家所采用的,也是發(fā)達國家中占主導(dǎo)地位的世俗主義形式。
如果你不支持所有公民在法律面前平等對待,如果你不支持旨在培養(yǎng)理性思維而非教條的世俗教育,如果你不支持國家的中立以及禁止國家資助任何宗教的原則,那么你就不是世俗的。
要成為一個真正的世俗國家,印度必須確保所有公民在法律面前平等。它還必須停止對所有宗教目的的國家資助,并要求兒童接受適當(dāng)?shù)氖浪捉逃?。如果自稱世俗的人還倡導(dǎo)根據(jù)宗教對社會特定群體給予特殊待遇,他們就必須重新考慮這一做法對印度世俗結(jié)構(gòu)的影響。這些特權(quán)是增強了印度社會,還是只是加劇了我們已經(jīng)極化的社會的分裂?
India can't help but remain secular state as long as it is Hindu majority. Hindu relegion by it's very nature professes that God is one and there are many ways to reach out to Him. There is no way a devout Hindu can hate other religions. Although most of the Abrahiminc religions preach that they are the only true relegions and killing or converting non believers especially idolworshippers as a noble deed.
印度在作為一個世俗國家的同時,不能忽視其印度教的大多數(shù)地位。印度教本質(zhì)上宣揚神只有一個,通往神的道路有很多條。一個虔誠的印度教徒不可能仇恨其他宗教。盡管大多數(shù)亞伯拉罕宗教宣稱自己是唯一的真宗教,并將殺害或轉(zhuǎn)化非信徒,尤其是崇拜偶像者,視為一種崇高的行為。
我知道大多數(shù)人會指出人民黨最近的崛起,說印度已經(jīng)改變了,但這是一種非常膚淺的分析,是由社交媒體的反饋組成的。這些都不是基礎(chǔ)現(xiàn)實。最近我訪問了印度最神圣的朝圣地瓦拉納西,莫迪總理的選區(qū)。最讓我驚訝的是,成千上萬的穆斯林住在維什瓦納特神廟方圓一公里內(nèi)。在最神圣的印度教寺廟里,他們像往常一樣做生意,沒有任何隱瞞自己身份的企圖。他們看上去都不像是受到了威脅。這是一個人民黨統(tǒng)治的邦。
約吉阿迪亞納斯和莫迪被認為是最狂熱的印度教社群主義者。如果你從媒體散布恐懼的數(shù)量來看,你會認為大多數(shù)穆斯林會收拾行李,去更安全的地方?;蛘咧辽偎麄儠噲D隱藏自己的身份。但是不,你可以很容易地從他們的頭蓋帽、雪瓦尼、胡須、長袍等中認出他們。
如果印度保持世俗化,即使在印度被穆斯林要求一個獨立的國家,并從巴基斯坦、克什米爾和孟加拉國對印度教徒進行種族清洗之后,也沒有什么能改變印度教徒的本質(zhì)。