歷數(shù)各個地區(qū)不同的統(tǒng)計系統(tǒng)。網(wǎng)友十分不理解東亞地區(qū)為什么要用“正”字來計數(shù)
Apparently not every nation uses the same tally system, neat right?
譯文簡介
我在互聯(lián)網(wǎng)上學到的一件事是，這種信息圖表永遠不準確
正文翻譯
Apparently not every nation uses the same tally system, neat right?
顯然，不是每個國家都使用相同的統(tǒng)計系統(tǒng)，對嗎？
（圖，因為把香港單獨列出，所以沒有展示）
顯然，不是每個國家都使用相同的統(tǒng)計系統(tǒng)，對嗎？
（圖，因為把香港單獨列出，所以沒有展示）
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One thing the internet taught me is that this kind of infographics is never accurate
我在互聯(lián)網(wǎng)上學到的一件事是，這種信息圖表永遠不準確
Well to start, Spain and France are in Europe
首先，西班牙和法國都在歐洲
Which would be excusable as a way to just be referring to "the rest of europe aside from these exceptions" But then you see that brazil and south america are mentioned separately in the same column..
如果只是指“除這些例外情況之外的歐洲其他地區(qū)”，這還算情有可原，但你可以看到巴西在存在“南美”這一類別的情況下在同一欄中被單獨提起...
And I've lived in Spain for 40 years and I'd never seen that, we use n. 1
我在西班牙生活了 40 年，但我從未見有人使用過第二種，我們使用第一種
I'm french and we use both
我是法國人，我們兩者都用
French too and I've never seen the square one
我也是法國人，但我從來沒見過方形那個
I see more often the square one than the first one personnally
我個人更經(jīng)常看到方形的而不是第一個
Can’t speak to many of the other countries, but for Japan it’s accurate.
正, pronounced in this case as “sēi”, is the commonly used tally mark in Japan, and consists of 5 strokes. It’s very commonly used, from writing the amount of items for a food order, to game scores, class attendance, etc.
The core meaning of the 正 kanji is true or correct in the logical sense of the word, which is obviously something you want when keeping a tally.
其他國家的情況我不太清楚，但日本的情況是準確的。
正，在這里讀作“sē”，是日本常用的記數(shù)符號，由 5 筆組成。它的使用非常普遍，從記錄點菜的數(shù)量，到游戲得分、課堂出勤率等。
漢字“正”的核心意思是邏輯意義上的真實或正確，這顯然是記賬時所需要的。
鑒于所有這些亞洲語言都有一個共同起源的表意文字書寫系統(tǒng)（即漢字），這種記賬方式即使可能不是標準的（我認為在韓國、中國和香港（特區(qū)）都不是），但至少在所有國家都可能得到認可。
I can confirm this is true for China, 正is pronounced zhèng, meaning “upright/straight/proper”. I think it’s used because 1. It has five strokes and 2. The order for writing this character is horizontal-vertical-repeat for five times.
我可以確認在中國也是，正的發(fā)音是 zhèng，意思是“正直/正確/適當”。我認為它之所以被使用是因為：1. 它有五筆，2. 這個字的書寫順序是橫-豎-連寫五次。
When I was in grade 3, my teacher had my class use the third option. It was to tally when we got in trouble. If a student drew all five strokes it meant missing recess for the day. Seeing that character is fear inducing haha
我上三年級時，老師讓我們班使用第三個選項。這是在我們?nèi)橇寺闊r用來統(tǒng)計的。如果一個學生畫滿了五筆，就意味著這天沒有課間休息。于是看到這個字就害怕，哈哈
Korean and we technically use both the english and Chinese systems. Older generation skews the Chinese system, younger the western one, but we understand both
我是韓國人，從技術(shù)上講，我們同時使用英語和漢語系統(tǒng)。老一代偏向中文系統(tǒng)，年輕一代偏向西方系統(tǒng)，但我們兩者都能理解。
This is most current and correct imo.
Western influence comes from most folks going to study abroad and/or gyopos.
在我看來，這條評論的信息是最新且正確的。
西方的影響來自大多數(shù)出國留學的人和/或僑民。
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I thought it was basically writing the number characters in order on top of each other. Like, one horizontal line for one, a second for two, a third for 3, a vertical line for 4 (doesnt really look like it), and another for 5, so it forms 五. Is this maybe a regional thing?
我認為它基本上是按順序?qū)?shù)字字符寫在彼此之上。比如，一條橫線代表1，第二條橫線代2，第三條代表3，一條豎線代表4（看起來不太像），另一條豎線代表5，所以它就形成了漢字“五”。這會是一個種地區(qū)性的事情嗎？
Well, that would be confusing because the character for 5 actually has 4 strokes. The character for 4 has 5 strokes…
嗯，這會令人困惑，因為“五”這個字實際上有 4 畫。 “四”這個字有5畫……
idk i was taught this in a basic Chinese class. the instructor himself was Chinese so i figured his info would be accurate?
我不知道，這是在基礎(chǔ)中文課上教的。教員本人就是中國人，所以我想他的信息應該是準確的？
I think you got punked by your instructor. It's actually a Chinese joke.
A rich man sent his good for nothing son to learn writing. The first day the teacher taught him how to write one which is one horizontal stroke. The second day, the boy was taught how to write two which has two horizontal strokes. The third day followed with three which has three horizontal strokes. At that point, the boy told his father he has learned all there is to learn.
The next day the father asked his son to help write the address on a letter. The boy agreed and went to the study to write. Hours later, the father dropped in to check the son's progress, only to see the boy drawing stroke after stroke. When he saw his father, he yelled "why your friend must be named 萬 (wan = 10,000)?"
我想你被你的老師耍了。這其實是個中國笑話
一個有錢人送他一無是處的兒子去學寫字。第一天，老師教他寫“一”，是一橫。第二天，老師教他寫兩橫的“二”。第三天，又教他寫三橫。這時，男孩告訴父親，他已經(jīng)學會了所有要學的東西。
第二天，父親讓兒子幫忙寫一封信上的地址。男孩同意了，然后去書房寫字。幾個小時后，父親順便來看看兒子的進度，只見男孩一筆又一筆地畫著。看到父親，他大喊：“為什么你的朋友一定要叫萬（萬=10000）？”
I figured it would be easier and less prone to mistakes/misreads when writing with a brush and ink rather than a quil
我想，用毛筆和墨水書寫比用鵝毛筆書寫更容易，也更不容易出錯/誤讀。
Just coming to confirm that we too do this here in Korea. Although some people are comfortable with the western tally system due to heavy western influence
只是來確認一下，我們韓國也是這樣做的。雖然由于受到西方的嚴重影響，有些人已經(jīng)很適應西方的計票系統(tǒng)
Do you consider the western tally system to be the fence or the box?
你們用的西方的計數(shù)系統(tǒng)是柵欄還是盒子？
Can confirm 正 is also definitely used for tallying in china, HK and Taiwan
可可以肯定的是，在中國大陸、香港（特區(qū)）和臺灣（地區(qū)），“正”也被用于計數(shù)
Accurate in Korea, we also use that Chinese character (pronounced ?; jeong) mostly when voting class representatives in school. It also kind of makes sense because that character means "correct" or "just" and those are the fundamental values of an election.
準確地說，在韓國，我們在學校投票選舉班級代表時也會用到這個漢字（讀作 ?；jeong）。這也是有道理的，因為這個字的意思是“正確”或“公正”，而這些正是選舉的基本價值觀。
I was an ALT in Japan for a year and the first time I asked the teacher to keep tally of the team points for my game, she did it using 正. I was so confused at first lol. However, I wonder if my students were also confused the first time I did it the North American way.
我在日本做了一年的助教，第一次讓老師為我的游戲統(tǒng)計團隊積分時，她用的是“正”。一開始我很困惑。不過，不知道我第一次用北美的方式記分時，我的學生們是否也感到困惑。
I saw this for the first time when I watched my Japanese neighbour counting trick-or-treaters this year! It never occurred to me that there would be different tally mark systems but of course there are.
我第一次看到這個是今年我看到我的日本鄰居用這種方法數(shù)“不給糖就搗蛋”的糖果！我從來沒想過會有不同的計數(shù)標記系統(tǒng)，但當然是有的。
Is the order also correct?
With 1一, 2二, 3三 and the 正 looking kinda related to 五5 I would have expected the order of strokes beginning like writing 1,2 and 3
順序也正確嗎？
1是一、2是二、3是三，而正看起來與五（5）有點關(guān)系，我本以為筆畫的順序會像寫 1、2、3 一樣。
The pic is accurate way of writing 正,you can’t really write it with horizontal bar before vertical bar otherwise it would look skew or leaning towards left/right.
圖中的“正”字的寫法是準確的，但不能寫成先橫后豎，否則會顯得歪斜或偏左偏右。
Generally, Chinese characters are written from the top left to the bottom right. Using that diagonal, the top horizontal is first, then the vertical line in the middle. The second horizontal goes next because it's connected to the vertical. Then, from left to right, the small vertical and the lower horizontal.
一般來說，漢字都是從左上方寫到右下方。利用這條對角線，最上面的橫排在第一位，然后是中間的豎線。接下來是第二橫，因為它與豎相連。然后，從左到右依次是小豎和下橫。
Interesting. I like the Brazilian one as it seems the most logical one to me
有意思。我喜歡巴西的方案，因為在我看來這是最合乎邏輯的
In Chinese tradition, prisoners use this to tally their days in an attempt to redeem, the correct/right way.
在中國傳統(tǒng)中，囚犯們用它來計算自己的日子，試圖以正確的方式贖罪
When I taught English in Korea, the students tried to teach me that tallying system. I think the character was pronounced jeong. Even though Koreans try to learn many of the Chinese characters, most are pretty limited. This one, however, was probably universally known amongst elementary students in the Seoul area in the early 2000s.
以前我在韓國教英語的時候，學生們試圖教會我那個計數(shù)系統(tǒng)。我記得這個漢字的發(fā)音是“jeong”。盡管韓國人嘗試學習許多漢字，但大多數(shù)都非常有限。然而，這個字可能在 2000 年代初期首爾地區(qū)的小學生中無人不知。
As a Brazilian I can confirm this is accurate. We do indeed use the box. I've never seem anyone use the "American" way.
作為一名巴西人，我可以證實這一點。我們確實使用“盒子”來計數(shù)。我從未見過有人使用 “美國式”方法。
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Same in Argentina, the box is used mainly for card games.
阿根廷也一樣，盒子主要用于紙牌游戲。
I'm from Brazil and I can confirm this is 100% accurate. Never saw anyone in here use anything besides this box model.
我來自巴西，我可以確認這是百分之百準確的。在這里，我從未見過有人使用除這種盒式以外的其他方式。
I thought I was French, since I was born in France, I have French nationality, a French ID, I vote in French national elections... but I have never seen or done the middle tally.
I guess I am stateless and I live here illegaly. That is something really interesting to learn, thank you!
我以為我是法國人，因為我出生在法國，我有法國國籍、法國身份證，我在法國全國大選中投票......但我從未見過或用過中間那種統(tǒng)計方式。
看來我是無國籍人士，非法生活在這里。這真是一件有趣的事情，謝謝你！
It'scorrect for Japan. Not sure if the other countries use it too, but I'm sure they do since that's a Chinese character. As a side note, the character means "correct." 正
對日本來說是正確的。我不確定其他國家是否也在使用，但我相信他們會使用，因為這是一個漢字。順便說一句，這個字的意思是“正確”。
From the comments, I guess this is the first time the internet has been correct!
從評論來看，我猜這是互聯(lián)網(wǎng)第一次正確！
The Chinese tally marks I know are 五 because it literally mean 5. I would believe it is the same in at least Japan (and Hong Kong)
我知道的中國記號是“五”，因為它的字面意思是5。我相信至少在日本（和香港（特區(qū)））是一樣的
Japan definitely uses the third one. The kanji it creates is 正, meaning “correct”.
日本肯定用的是第三種。它產(chǎn)生的漢字是正，意思是“正確”。
Now THAT'S interesting as fuck
這太有趣了
Same in Chinese, we use 正 (“zheng”) if we want to “correct” something.
中文也一樣，如果要“糾正”什么，我們就用正（“正”）。
I did an exchange in Japan and new a girl that would do it with 五 which I thought was really cool
我在日本做過交換生，有個女孩會用“五”這個字來計數(shù)，我覺得很酷
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Fun fact: this is technically incorrect because the character 五 has only 4 strokes (the 乛 part is technically 1 stroke)
有趣的事實：這在技術(shù)上是不正確的，因為“五”字只有 4 筆（“乛”在技術(shù)上是 1 筆）
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I am brazilian, and use the second. My girlfriend is dutch uses the first and never saw the one i use. For me the second, i use, was universal.
我是巴西人，用第二種。我的女朋友是荷蘭人，使用第一種，并且從未見過我用的那種。對我來說，我使用的第二種是通用的。
I’m french and I never seen anyone use the second one, we use the first one.
edit : no need to reply that you’re french too and that you’ve seen people use the second one. I get it, been told like 30 times now. It’s probably a regional thing.
我是法國人，從來沒見過有人用第二種，我們用第一種。
編輯：好了，沒必要回復說你也是法國人，你見過有人用第二種。我明白了，我已經(jīng)聽說了 30 遍了。這可能是一個地區(qū)的問題。
I'm used to the American version, but I actually like the Brazilian version better. Easier to tell at a glance how many you've tallied, even with sloppy handwriting
我已經(jīng)習慣了美國版本，但實際上我更喜歡巴西版本。即使筆跡潦草，也能一目了然地知道自己算了多少
The first one i think is pretty intuitive, the only time you'd count anything other than 5 is for the last block of tallies, there shouldn't be too much to miss.
我認為第一個非常直觀，只有在最后一組統(tǒng)計時才會計算 5 以外的數(shù)字，不會有太多遺漏。
Both 1) and 2) are intuitive, but if you have sloppy handwriting or something, it can be hard to distinguish between II and III or III and IIII.
Most of the time it's fine, but 2) is slightly easier to tell at a glance.
1）和 2）都很直觀，但如果你字跡潦草或其他原因，就很難區(qū)分 II 和 III 或 III 和 IIII。
大多數(shù)情況下是沒問題的，但 2）更容易區(qū)分。
i mean i can understand the second one, but the third one is proper fucked, who came up with that one dangling stroke??
我的意思是，我可以理解第二個，但第三個就懵逼了，是誰想出那個懸空的筆畫的？
Took this answer from this forum post
正 is a common character
正 has five stokes
The character neatly form a square shape, make counting multiple copies easier
The stoke order and stoke type are simple . It just repeat two different straight stokes:
Left to right horizontal straight line
Top to bottom vertical straight line
One can write 正 faster than most other five stokes characters
And to answer your question about the one dangling stroke: in Chinese there is always an order to write the strokes for the characters. It's always top to bottom, left to right, hence the dangling stroke before the final bottom one.
從這個論壇帖子中得到的答案
正是一個常用字
正有五畫
五畫都是直的，沒有重疊，數(shù)起來比較容易。
字形整齊，呈正方形，便于計算多份。
筆畫順序和筆畫類型都很簡單。它只是重復兩個不同的橫豎：
從左到右的水平直線
從上到下的垂直直線
與其他大多數(shù)五畫的字相比，正的書寫速度更快。
可能還有其他原因，但這些是最有可能的。誠然，從西方人的角度看，這看起來很“操蛋”，但在中文里，這就是合理的。
回答你關(guān)于懸空筆畫的問題：漢字的筆畫書寫總是有順序的?？偸菑纳系较?，從左到右，因此在最后的下一筆之前會有一個懸空的筆畫。
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Yeah, I'm gonna just go ahead and call bullshit on pretty much all of that.
正 is a common character
All five stokes are straight and no overlap, so it is easier to count each stoke.
Three problems here: 1. "no overlap" means you have to have quite a bit of precision when writing it, and if you do accidentally have some overlap, or some of the strokes don't end up connecting, it ends up being considerably less readable later. 2. "easier to count" is definitely not true. Our brains are hard-wired to automotically recognize small quantities <=4 without actually counting them. The tallies |,
,
啊，我想說，這些都是胡說八道。
“正是一個常用字”
我很樂意假設這是真的，但這并不重要。一個東西是否是常用字與它是否是一個好的統(tǒng)計標記系統(tǒng)沒有半毛錢關(guān)系。
“五畫都是直的，沒有重疊，數(shù)起來比較容易”
這里有三個問題： 1. “沒有重疊”意味著你在書寫時必須相當精確，如果你不小心有一些重疊，或者一些筆畫最終沒有連接起來，那么可讀性就會大大降低。2.“更容易計算”絕對不是事實。我們的大腦天生就會自動識別小于 4 的小數(shù)量，而無需真正計算它們。像|,
You can call bullshit all you want but all the above points are correct.
We use 正 as tally in Taiwan all the time, from counting votes to ordering food on a menu.
Just because you fail to wrap your head around it, doesn't mean it's BS alright big boy?
你可以說這是胡說八道，但上面那個人說的都是正確的。
在臺灣（地區(qū)），從計算選票到在菜單上點菜，都一直在使用“正”。
這是我們在學校學習的第一個漢字。這個字母的意思是“正確”、“正義”或“正直”。這就像區(qū)分 U 或 V，或者 i 和 j 一樣簡單，沒有一個有中文背景的人會把它認錯，或者像你描述的那樣寫錯筆畫、重疊或亂七八糟。你完全不知道自己在說什么。如果你一筆寫完，你的初級中文課肯定不及格。
你無法理解，并不意味著這是胡說八道，好嗎，大男孩？
Going to call bullshit on a system that you don’t understand from another culture..?
你非要對一個你不了解的另一種文化體系胡說八道一通嗎...？
This is such a bizarre hill to die on for someone who isn’t a native Chinese or Japanese speaker. Hell, I learned this character in a Japanese class 18 years ago and have not kept up well on my studies since and I can still write it in the correct stroke order in my sleep.
All of your weird points are completely irrelevant in the fact that at least in Japan you learn this character when you are 6 years old and would never even think to write it in any way other than as shown in the diagram. It seems like you just don’t understand how kanji/hanzi work and that’s fine but why are you arguing about it??
對于非漢語或日語母語的人來說，糾結(jié)這件事真是太奇怪了。天哪，我 18 年前在日語課上學習過這個字，后來一直沒有好好學習，但我仍然可以在睡夢中按照正確的筆順寫出這個字。
你所有的奇怪觀點都與事實完全無關(guān)，至少在日本，你在 6 歲的時候就學會了這個字，而且根本不會想到用圖中所示以外的其他方式來書寫它?？磥砟阒皇遣涣私鉂h字/漢字的工作原理，這沒什么，但你為什么要爭論這個問題呢？