俄羅斯蘇霍伊蘇30與中國殲16戰(zhàn)斗機對比
Comparison of Russian Sukhoi Su 30 and China's J 16 Fighter jet
譯文簡介
在先進多用途戰(zhàn)斗機領(lǐng)域，俄羅斯蘇霍伊Su-30和中國J-16脫穎而出，成為重要參與者，每一款都體現(xiàn)了各自國家的技術(shù)和戰(zhàn)略愿望。
正文翻譯
In the realm of advanced multirole fighters, the Russian Sukhoi Su-30 and the Chinese J-16 stand out as significant players, each embodying the technological and strategic aspirations of their respective countries.
在先進多用途戰(zhàn)斗機領(lǐng)域，俄羅斯蘇霍伊Su-30和中國J-16脫穎而出，成為重要參與者，每一款都體現(xiàn)了各自國家的技術(shù)和戰(zhàn)略愿望。
在先進多用途戰(zhàn)斗機領(lǐng)域，俄羅斯蘇霍伊Su-30和中國J-16脫穎而出，成為重要參與者，每一款都體現(xiàn)了各自國家的技術(shù)和戰(zhàn)略愿望。
The Sukhoi Su-30, a derivative of the Su-27 Flanker, is renowned for its versatility, with its origins rooted in the Cold War era and extensive upgrades over the years. In contrast, the J-16, developed by China's Shenyang Aircraft Corporation, represents the latest in China's growing aerospace prowess, boasting advanced systems.
蘇霍伊 Su-30 是 Su-27側(cè)衛(wèi)的衍生型，以其多功能性而聞名，其起源于冷戰(zhàn)時期，并多年來進行了廣泛的升級。相比之下，由中國沈陽飛機集團公司研制的J-16代表了中國不斷發(fā)展的航空航天實力的最新成果，擁有先進的系統(tǒng)。
蘇霍伊 Su-30 是 Su-27側(cè)衛(wèi)的衍生型，以其多功能性而聞名，其起源于冷戰(zhàn)時期，并多年來進行了廣泛的升級。相比之下，由中國沈陽飛機集團公司研制的J-16代表了中國不斷發(fā)展的航空航天實力的最新成果，擁有先進的系統(tǒng)。
In this video, we will compare both fighters, examining their design, technological advancements, and operational capabilities to understand how they stack up against each other in the competitive landscape of modern aerial warfare.
在這段視頻中，我們將比較這兩種戰(zhàn)斗機，檢查它們的設(shè)計、技術(shù)進步和作戰(zhàn)能力，以了解它們在現(xiàn)代空戰(zhàn)的競爭格局中如何相互競爭。
在這段視頻中，我們將比較這兩種戰(zhàn)斗機，檢查它們的設(shè)計、技術(shù)進步和作戰(zhàn)能力，以了解它們在現(xiàn)代空戰(zhàn)的競爭格局中如何相互競爭。
The Sukhoi Su-30 is a Russian fighter jet with two engines and seats for two pilots. It's designed to fly in all weather and perform air-to-air and ground attacks. It can fly with autopilot and use radar to navigate at low altitudes. The Su-30 can attack both air and ground targets alone or in groups. As of 2024, about 600 of these jets have been built.
蘇霍伊 Su-30 是一款俄羅斯戰(zhàn)斗機，配有兩臺發(fā)動機和兩名飛行員的座椅。它設(shè)計用于在所有天氣條件下飛行并執(zhí)行空對空和地面攻擊。它可以使用自動駕駛儀飛行，并使用雷達(dá)在低空導(dǎo)航。 Su-30可以單獨或成群攻擊空中和地面目標(biāo)。截至 2024 年，此類噴氣式飛機已制造約 600 架。
蘇霍伊 Su-30 是一款俄羅斯戰(zhàn)斗機，配有兩臺發(fā)動機和兩名飛行員的座椅。它設(shè)計用于在所有天氣條件下飛行并執(zhí)行空對空和地面攻擊。它可以使用自動駕駛儀飛行，并使用雷達(dá)在低空導(dǎo)航。 Su-30可以單獨或成群攻擊空中和地面目標(biāo)。截至 2024 年，此類噴氣式飛機已制造約 600 架。
While Shenyang J-16 is a Chinese fighter jet that also has two seats and two engines. It’s based on the Russian Su-27 and Su-30, but it's made by China's Shenyang Aircraft Corporation. The J-16 is used by the Chinese military and is known for its advanced technology, including a version that uses artificial intelligence in place of a backseat pilot. As of 2024, around 350 J-16s have been built.
而沈陽J-16是一款中國戰(zhàn)斗機，也有兩個座位和兩個發(fā)動機。它以俄羅斯Su-27和Su-30為基礎(chǔ)，但由中國沈陽飛機集團公司制造。 J-16由中國軍方使用，以其先進技術(shù)而聞名，其中包括使用人工智能代替后座飛行員的版本。截至 2024年，已制造約350架 J-16。
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而沈陽J-16是一款中國戰(zhàn)斗機，也有兩個座位和兩個發(fā)動機。它以俄羅斯Su-27和Su-30為基礎(chǔ)，但由中國沈陽飛機集團公司制造。 J-16由中國軍方使用，以其先進技術(shù)而聞名，其中包括使用人工智能代替后座飛行員的版本。截至 2024年，已制造約350架 J-16。
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aerodynamic performance of flankers are still the top. I guess that is why China keeps it. meanwhile, China replaced its radar/control/weapons with more advanced/sophisticated ones since China has far more advance in that electronics industry. J16 is the best from flanker families
側(cè)衛(wèi)系列的氣動性能仍然是最頂尖的。我想這就是中國繼續(xù)使用它的原因。與此同時，中國用更先進、更復(fù)雜的雷達(dá)、控制系統(tǒng)和武器替換了原有的設(shè)備，因為中國在電子工業(yè)方面遠(yuǎn)遠(yuǎn)領(lǐng)先。J16是側(cè)衛(wèi)系列中最優(yōu)秀的型號。
J16D won against US F18EG in recent electronic warfare confrontation in SCS..
J16D在最近的南海電子戰(zhàn)對抗中擊敗了美國的F18EG。
PLA been constantly upgrading their Flanker series to the now J16D electronic warfare variant.... that's way beyond what Russians can do to their Flankers
解放軍一直在升級他們的側(cè)衛(wèi)系列，現(xiàn)在的J16D電子戰(zhàn)型號已經(jīng)遠(yuǎn)遠(yuǎn)超過了俄羅斯對側(cè)衛(wèi)系列的改進能力。
Stolen technology.Why compare?
偷來的技術(shù)，有什么好比的？
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Russian still squeezing the last bit of aerodynamic performance out of T-10 series, which is also we Chinese do not and will not do, they still have another type of advantage
China now turn to delta wings and complex turbulence aerodynamic design, and for T-10 series, we replace more metal with carbon fiber, we do not do more aerodynamic change on flanker, we simply make it less weight, replace old soviet heavy electronic system with new better ones, and change a better engine
thats the difference between Russians and us now
but Russians are now still producing the best aero designed flanker now
俄羅斯仍在從T-10系列中榨取最后一點氣動性能，這也是我們中國人不做也不會做的事情，他們?nèi)匀挥辛硪环N優(yōu)勢。
中國現(xiàn)在轉(zhuǎn)向三角翼和復(fù)雜湍流氣動設(shè)計，而對于T-10系列，我們用碳纖維替換了更多的金屬，我們沒有對側(cè)衛(wèi)進行更多的氣動改進，只是減輕了重量，用新的更好的電子系統(tǒng)替換了舊蘇聯(lián)的笨重電子系統(tǒng)，并更換了更好的發(fā)動機。
這就是現(xiàn)在俄羅斯和我們的區(qū)別。
但俄羅斯現(xiàn)在仍在生產(chǎn)氣動設(shè)計最好的側(cè)衛(wèi)。
however, till now, time seems on our side, flanker seems to be old in aerodynamic design after 40 years glory, and the result seems like delta wing and complex aerodynamic design we think more about, but Russian are still working on a better flanker, although J20 can fly at mach 2.7 with same engine while flanker can only fly at mach 2.35
Russians run out of their money, so they can not do anything more, what make the final flanker SU57 a solemn and strring story
然而，到目前為止，時間似乎站在我們這邊，側(cè)衛(wèi)在40年的輝煌后，氣動設(shè)計似乎已經(jīng)過時，而結(jié)果似乎是我們更關(guān)注的三角翼和復(fù)雜氣動設(shè)計，但俄羅斯仍在努力改進側(cè)衛(wèi)，盡管J20使用相同的發(fā)動機可以飛到2.7馬赫，而側(cè)衛(wèi)只能飛到2.35馬赫。
俄羅斯已經(jīng)沒錢了，所以他們無法再做更多的事情，這使得最終的側(cè)衛(wèi)SU57成為一個莊嚴(yán)而感人的故事。
yes, J16 is just looks like Su30, almost everything had been changed.
是的，J16只是看起來像Su30，但幾乎所有的東西都已經(jīng)被改變了。
Su30 looks like Su27 and Su30 SM has everything changed! New Su57 jets are replacing all varieties because they fit on all Sukhoi 27-57,Dry trust is Mah1.6 speed Mah 2.34 with 15% additional range and 30% longer life, cheaper usage! But Russia and China have little to no secrets with each other, sharing technology and resources! They are facing same enemies, and the only way they survive is keeping each others back!@pojunxingjun
Su30看起來像Su27，而Su30 SM已經(jīng)改變了所有東西！新的Su57正在取代所有型號，因為它們適用于所有蘇霍伊27-57系列，速度為1.6馬赫，最高速度為2.34馬赫，航程增加了15%，壽命延長了30%，使用成本更低！
但俄羅斯和中國幾乎沒有秘密，共享技術(shù)和資源！他們面對相同的敵人，唯一的生存方式就是互相支持！
@LuobingSong Where have Chinese planes ever fought? Egypt just ordered the J-10 and found it to be inadequate. If Delta wing configurationsare so wonderful, why have America and Russia, the two leading countries in aircraft design not adopted them?
中國的飛機在哪里打過仗？埃及剛剛訂購了J-10，發(fā)現(xiàn)它不夠好。如果三角翼配置如此出色，為什么美國和俄羅斯這兩個飛機設(shè)計的領(lǐng)先國家沒有采用它們？
@MaboloLibwese every europe fighter use delta wing, mig21 use delta wing
as for war, peace for Chinese is a critical problem, Chinese do not kill babies in Vietnam or Afghanistan, so J-10 are so called do not go though a war
but is it a real war to kill babies in Vietnam and Afghanistan?
did one single fight between BBC and USAF in the past 70 year?
su27 do fight against some plane, it is mig29, the war started in 1993 between two forgeten country in eastern Africa, and for F16, it is a war-proven tactical bomber, the most war-proven weapon of F-16 is JDAM guided bomb
每架歐洲戰(zhàn)斗機都使用三角翼，Mig21也使用三角翼。
至于戰(zhàn)爭，和平對中國人來說是一個關(guān)鍵問題，中國人不會在越南或阿富汗殺害嬰兒，所以J-10被稱為沒有經(jīng)歷過戰(zhàn)爭。
但在越南和阿富汗殺害嬰兒是真正的戰(zhàn)爭嗎？
過去70年里，BBC和美國空軍之間有過一次戰(zhàn)斗嗎？
Su27確實與某些飛機戰(zhàn)斗過，那是Mig29，戰(zhàn)爭于1993年在東非兩個被遺忘的國家之間開始，而F16是一種經(jīng)過戰(zhàn)爭考驗的戰(zhàn)術(shù)轟炸機，F(xiàn)-16最經(jīng)戰(zhàn)爭考驗的武器是JDAM制導(dǎo)炸彈。
@MaboloLibwese and there is one more thing, egypt never official ordered any J-10 fighter, i know there are good story about how egypt abandon the order of J-10 fighter, i think those writter know more than egypt airforces, the DOE of republic of egypt should resign now and let them be
there are more good stories, let me tell you, those turks cancel the order of HQ-9 AIM, the Brazil cancel the order of JF-17
Chinese plane has been defending half of middle east countries for the last century after WWII, these plane will continue be simply ignored by ego western peoples, but they will be there until the dark ages gone, and the new world erase the old
還有一件事，說埃及從未正式訂購過任何J-10戰(zhàn)斗機，我知道有很多關(guān)于埃及放棄J-10訂單的好故事，我認(rèn)為那些作家確實比埃及空軍更了解情況，埃及共和國的DOE現(xiàn)在應(yīng)該辭職，讓他們?nèi)グ伞?
還有更多好故事，讓我告訴你，土耳其取消了HQ-9 AIM的訂單，巴西取消了JF-17的訂單。
中國的飛機在二戰(zhàn)后一直保衛(wèi)著中東一半的國家，這些飛機將繼續(xù)被自負(fù)的西方人忽視，但它們會一直存在，直到黑暗時代過去，新世界取代舊世界。
@LuobingSong The same Europe that is an American colony? The same Europe made of weak little countries, of which not a single one can defeat Iran or Algeria on a conventional battlefield. In stead of copying everyone, and hoping that one of those copies work, why don't the Chinese actually use the money to do the tests themselves, to see what they need? Right now, European equipment is failing everywhere in Ukraine, and you are giving me the example of European weapons, what is wrong with you?
那個作為美國殖民地的歐洲？那個由弱小國家組成的歐洲，沒有一個國家能在常規(guī)戰(zhàn)場上擊敗伊朗或阿爾及利亞。與其抄襲所有人，并希望其中某個抄襲品能奏效，為什么中國人不實際用這些錢自己做測試，看看他們需要什么？現(xiàn)在，歐洲的裝備在烏克蘭到處失敗，而你卻給我舉歐洲武器的例子，你到底怎么了？
@MaboloLibwese there will be several war recent years before 2030
time will prove me
在2030年之前，會有幾場戰(zhàn)爭發(fā)生，時間會證明我是對的。
@MaboloLibwese any source to backup your point? you said Egypt just ordered the J-10 and found it to be inadequate.
有任何來源支持你的觀點嗎？你說埃及剛剛訂購了J-10，發(fā)現(xiàn)它不夠好。
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@MaboloLibwese China is very poor after being robbed and plundered by Western bandits for hundreds of years. If China also imitates you and becomes a bandit, will it be your turn today? Remember, you secretly learned Chinese gunpowder technology and compass technology hundreds of years ago to become bandits. The United States also steals German technology. Can you tell me which country has not stolen technology? Even if many American technologies were invented by the United States? Many of them were created by immigrant students from poor countries, so don’t brag as if you are smart~! You are really smart, why are you still living like Yerang a thousand years ago? You don’t know how much Chinese culture and technology you have stolen, we know it very well! This is why ancient China could excavate terracotta warriors and horses, and unearth bronzes, porcelain, and seismographs. But do you think your ancestors had anything to compare with?
中國在被西方強盜掠奪了幾百年后變得非常貧窮。如果中國也模仿你們成為強盜，今天會輪到你們嗎？記住，你們幾百年前偷偷學(xué)習(xí)了中國的火藥技術(shù)和指南針技術(shù)，成為了強盜。美國也偷竊德國的技術(shù)。你能告訴我哪個國家沒有偷過技術(shù)嗎？即使許多美國技術(shù)是美國發(fā)明的？
其中許多是由來自貧窮國家的移民學(xué)生創(chuàng)造的，所以不要吹噓自己很聰明~！你們真的很聰明，為什么你們還像一千年前的夜郎一樣生活？你們不知道自己偷了多少中國文化和科技，我們非常清楚！這就是為什么古代中國能挖掘出兵馬俑、青銅器、瓷器和地震儀。但你認(rèn)為你們的祖先有什么可以與之相比的嗎？
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@MaboloLibwese China is not a warlike country and we are proud of it (unlike a certain country across the pacific). Unless we are provoked we don't want war. But China will be prepared.
中國不是一個好戰(zhàn)的國家，我們?yōu)榇烁械阶院溃ú幌裉窖髮Π兜哪硞€國家）。除非被挑釁，否則我們不想要戰(zhàn)爭。但中國會做好準(zhǔn)備。
@roro-v3z The evidence of your history attests to what you claim. You are indeed a peaceful, civil, generous and considerate people. We in a Africa know that without you and the Soviet unx, we would not likely not be alive, much less have countries to call our own.
你們的歷史證明了你們的說法。你們確實是一個和平、文明、慷慨和體貼的民族。我們非洲人知道，沒有你們和蘇聯(lián)，我們可能無法生存，更不用說擁有自己的國家了。
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Because you western sanctions Russia where they got the money for development
因為你們西方制裁俄羅斯，他們從哪里獲得發(fā)展的資金？
Where have these Chinese planes every fought? What have they ever done? The Russian planes are at this point the most combat tested planes in the world period. All the planes of all the other countries in the world are but tigers on paper.
這些中國飛機在哪里打過仗？它們做過什么？俄羅斯飛機是目前世界上經(jīng)過最多實戰(zhàn)考驗的飛機。世界上所有其他國家的飛機都只是紙老虎。
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@LuobingSong You delta wing nonsense need to get off your high horse. Why is this rubbish only pushed by second class countries, the ones who build one or two planes? The US and Russia do not do this delta wing nonsense. These are the countries which have developed 90% of all the aviation technology. China's contribution is to apply a xerox machine to the work other people have done.
你的三角翼廢話需要放下架子。為什么這種垃圾只被二流國家推動，那些只造一兩架飛機的國家？美國和俄羅斯不做這種三角翼的廢話。這些國家開發(fā)了90%的航空技術(shù)。中國的貢獻(xiàn)就是把別人的工作用復(fù)印機復(fù)制一遍。
@MaboloLibwese why'd you want to start a conflict in order to test your gears?? you know how much money russia is burning each day on this SMO?
你為什么想通過挑起沖突來測試你的裝備？你知道俄羅斯每天在這場特別軍事行動中燒多少錢嗎？
@LuobingSong The only advantage you Chinese have is the ability to produce what you copy in greater numbers than those who have invented it. In fact, some years ago, Putin told a great truth, when he said that he wanted his scientists back. Iran, North Korea and China, absorbed tens of thousands of former Soviet scientists when Ukraine, Belarus and Russia were unable to pay them following the breakup of the Soviet unx. If China, Iran and North Korea are now claiming to have hypersonic weapons, and if China is now able to reproduce Russian weapons with ease, please understand why
你們中國人唯一的優(yōu)勢是能夠以比發(fā)明者更大的數(shù)量生產(chǎn)你們復(fù)制的東西。事實上，幾年前，普京說了一個偉大的真理，他說他想要他的科學(xué)家回來。伊朗、朝鮮和中國吸收了數(shù)萬名前蘇聯(lián)科學(xué)家，當(dāng)時烏克蘭、白俄羅斯和俄羅斯在蘇聯(lián)解體后無法支付他們的工資。如果中國、伊朗和朝鮮現(xiàn)在聲稱擁有高超音速武器，并且如果中國現(xiàn)在能夠輕松復(fù)制俄羅斯武器，請理解為什么。
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@fatdoi003 Go back to February 2022, listen to that Security Council meeting, where each member stood up to explain why Russia would be doing what it is doing now, to understand why Russians are spending the money they are on the SMO. There was not one single person who gave the need to test weapons as the reason to go to war. Stop invoking something else as reason to defend yourself against an argument you cannot win.
回到2022年2月，聽聽那次安理會會議，每個成員都站起來解釋俄羅斯為什么現(xiàn)在做這些事情，以理解俄羅斯為什么在特別軍事行動上花錢。沒有一個人把測試武器的需求作為開戰(zhàn)的理由。停止用其他理由來為自己辯護，因為你無法贏得這個爭論。
@MaboloLibwese i surely can, as i say, if you need to start a war to test or to prove your gears then your gears quite suck to begin with.... turns out the best bit of gear in this conflict is drones and who makes the best drones??
我當(dāng)然可以，正如我所說，如果你需要通過發(fā)動戰(zhàn)爭來測試或證明你的裝備，那么你的裝備一開始就很糟糕……事實證明，這場沖突中最好的裝備是無人機，而誰制造了最好的無人機？
@MaboloLibwese lol, "Egypt just ordered the J-10 and found it to be inadequate"?! though no official news from both governments, but per online social media, the contract was signed last month. you are pathetic...
哈哈，“埃及剛剛訂購了J-10，發(fā)現(xiàn)它不夠好”？！雖然沒有兩國政府的官方消息，但根據(jù)社交媒體，合同是上個月簽署的。你真可憐……
@MaboloLibwese LOL.... "Joined Oct 2, 2024", bro... how much they paid you for creating this account??
哈哈……“2024年10月2日加入”，兄弟……他們付了多少錢讓你創(chuàng)建這個賬號？
This is Chinese alaways do: improved copy. They don't simply copy it. They will only copy the best parts of you. Improve the parts they don't like. That is why J16 is for sure better Su 30.
這是中國人一貫的做法：改進復(fù)制。他們不會簡單地復(fù)制。他們只會復(fù)制你最好的部分，改進他們不喜歡的部分。這就是為什么J16肯定比Su30更好。
improved copy is ability, most country do not have this ability.
改進復(fù)制是一種能力，大多數(shù)國家沒有這種能力。
spot on
說對了。
J16 is better than the Su35, which is the latest and best Flankers from Russia.
It has PL21, the longest range A2S missile
Endian SU30 is old and decrepit..
Flown by the worst pilot in the world.. endian pilot.
The endian SU30 stands no chance against J16.
J16比Su35更好，Su35是俄羅斯最新最好的側(cè)衛(wèi)。
J16配備了PL21，射程最遠(yuǎn)的空對空導(dǎo)彈。
印度的Su30老舊不堪……
由世界上最差的飛行員駕駛……印度飛行員。
印度的Su30根本不是J16的對手。
Terbaik kalo sudah di uji di Medan perang. Bukan di atas kertas seperti f22 @SengpoSatbang
只有在戰(zhàn)場上經(jīng)過考驗的才是最好的，而不是像F22那樣只停留在紙上。
they are two completely different jets now
它們現(xiàn)在是兩種完全不同的飛機。
They are not completely different. If they were they would not look different. And if the Chinese had the ability to design their own planes, they would. Right now, they show an ability to reproduce Russian and American designs
它們并不是完全不同。如果完全不同，它們看起來就不會有區(qū)別。如果中國人有能力設(shè)計自己的飛機，他們會的。現(xiàn)在，他們展示了復(fù)制俄羅斯和美國設(shè)計的能力。
@lzhburn That is it. You are telling the truth
就是這樣。你說的是實話。
@MaboloLibwese The US F15 replicated the Russian MiG-25; The US B1 replicated Russia's TU160
美國的F15復(fù)制了俄羅斯的MiG-25；美國的B1復(fù)制了俄羅斯的TU160。
@MaboloLibwese guys, don't spread the rumor. J20 and J35 are designed by China. China can't copy them through air as there is no physical sample on hand.
大家不要傳播謠言。J20和J35是中國設(shè)計的。中國無法通過空氣復(fù)制它們，因為沒有實物樣本在手。
Aside from aerodynamic layout and appearance, which are indeed well-regarded in the Su-30, there is no resemblance between the two aircraft internally. The radar, avionics, engines, and weapon systems are completely different—essentially, they are two entirely different fighter jets.
除了氣動布局和外觀，Su-30在這方面確實備受好評，但兩架飛機內(nèi)部沒有任何相似之處。雷達(dá)、航電、發(fā)動機和武器系統(tǒng)完全不同——本質(zhì)上，它們是兩架完全不同的戰(zhàn)斗機。
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They are not different planes. If what you are saying was the basis for differentiating things, the Indians could say the same thing about the Su30MKI which they have loaded with electronics imported from Israel and other countries. You import Russians and reproduce Russian planes (illegally), and the Russians import no weapons from you for a very good reason. They know what they are doing and you don't
它們并不是不同的飛機。如果你說的這些是區(qū)分事物的依據(jù)，印度人也可以對他們的Su30MKI說同樣的話，他們的Su30MKI裝滿了從以色列和其他國家進口的電子設(shè)備。你們進口俄羅斯的飛機并（非法）復(fù)制俄羅斯的飛機，而俄羅斯不從你們那里進口武器是有充分理由的。他們知道自己在做什么，而你們不知道。
中國引入蘇27，包括生產(chǎn)權(quán)及智識產(chǎn)權(quán)！中國有權(quán)改良及自行生產(chǎn)，是合法抄襲！之後改良，除外型相似之外，基本上，內(nèi)部電子航天系統(tǒng)，有源相控雷達(dá)，武器系統(tǒng)，飛機結(jié)構(gòu)，碳纖維物料，鈦合金物料，什至引擎，已經(jīng)百分百完全國產(chǎn)化，比俄國戰(zhàn)機更先進！
@yau7639 The Chinese bought Su30s and made illegal developments, as they did the Mig21 and many Russian weapons. The Chinese then went to Russia and tried to buy 12 Su35S. The Russians refused, because they knew that Chinese wanted to use these planes to make hundreds more illegally. The Russians only agreed when the Chinese agreed to buy 24.
中國人購買了Su30并進行了非法改進，就像他們對Mig21和許多俄羅斯武器所做的那樣。然后中國人去俄羅斯試圖購買12架Su35S。俄羅斯人拒絕了，因為他們知道中國人想用這些飛機非法制造數(shù)百架。只有當(dāng)中國人同意購買24架時，俄羅斯人才同意。
蘇27係蘇聯(lián)產(chǎn)物，蘇聯(lián)解體後，俄國同意履行合約，即大陸引進蘇27，包括生產(chǎn)權(quán)及知識產(chǎn)權(quán)，經(jīng)過改良，發(fā)展而成阡11，阡16等，早期仍然採用俄制引擎，目前，已經(jīng)全部百份百國產(chǎn)！
@MaboloLibwese 美國有5G嗎？
美國有5G嗎？
@MaboloLibwese If you don't want to be a prostitute, don't sell your body. Since you are selling yourself, don't pretend to be a noble lady. Since China has introduced the SU-27 production line, it certainly has the right to improve the SU-27. Otherwise, do you think you are giving Russia overnight fees for free?
如果你不想當(dāng)妓女，就不要出賣自己的身體。既然你在出賣自己，就不要假裝是貴婦。既然中國引進了SU-27生產(chǎn)線，當(dāng)然有權(quán)改進SU-27。否則，你認(rèn)為你在免費給俄羅斯過夜費嗎？
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@MerdanYakefu You are delusional. If there are no patents, why did the Chinese and the Indians have to sign contracts permitting them to manufacture Su27s and Su30MKI respectively? Why is it that the Amerians can restrict how the foreign jets that fly with their engines, such as the Swedish made Saab Grippen are used or sold? If there are no patents, how is it that Russia is able to prevent Turkey from reselling its S400? If there are no patents, why is it that only a few authorised countries, such as Turkey for the F-16, and a few others for the F-35, are allowed to make spare parts? Why is the AK-47 made by almost everyone, but only America makes the M-16? Hint, one was copyrighted, and the other was not...
As for the Germanys needing to be consulted in the case of the patenting weapons, exactly why do the Germans own this priviledge?
你是在妄想。如果沒有專利，為什么中國和印度必須簽署合同，允許他們分別制造Su27和Su30MKI？為什么美國人可以限制使用他們發(fā)動機的外國飛機，比如瑞典制造的Saab Grippen的使用或銷售？如果沒有專利，俄羅斯如何能夠阻止土耳其轉(zhuǎn)售其S400？如果沒有專利，為什么只有少數(shù)授權(quán)國家，如土耳其可以制造F-16的備件，而其他少數(shù)國家可以制造F-35的備件？為什么AK-47幾乎每個人都能制造，而只有美國制造M-16？提示，一個有版權(quán)，另一個沒有……
至于德國在武器專利方面需要被咨詢，為什么德國擁有這種特權(quán)？
@MaboloLibwese Signing a contract is about importing technology; they don't teach you how to manufacture, and you won't be able to produce anything. Moreover, India assembles, not manufactures; these are two different things.
簽署合同是為了引進技術(shù)；他們不會教你如何制造，你也無法生產(chǎn)任何東西。此外，印度是組裝，而不是制造；這是兩回事。
@DuChen-py7gl Whether it is China and India, which introduced the Russian SU-27 or SU-30 production lines in the early years, or Turkey, which introduced the F-16 production line, they are all assembly production lines. Russia and the United States did not teach the core technologies such as engines, radars, and avionics to the importing countries. To put it bluntly, they spend money to buy Russian or American fighter jets, but they are assembled and produced in the purchasing country. On the one hand, it can increase employment in the purchasing country, and on the other hand, it can let the purchasing country understand the assembly process of advanced aircraft. Assembly is also a technology, although the technical level is relatively low. We Chinese have a proverb: The master leads you into the door, whether you can learn something depends on how you do it. It shows that the Chinese people's IQ, hard work and love of learning have achieved the development of China's aviation technology. We learned a lot of core technologies from SU-27 by assembling, studying, imitating and understanding it. Later, the Chinese developed their own phased array radar, their own avionics system, their own head-up display, their own ejection seat, and their own engine. Except for the outer shell (the Chinese admire the appearance of SU-27 very much), the entire aircraft was replaced with products made by the Chinese themselves, that is, J-16. The performance of J-16 is one generation ahead of SU-27. India, which introduced the SU-30, and Turkey, which introduced the F-16, are still in the stage of assembling aircraft and have not yet truly mastered the manufacturing technology of advanced fighter jets. This is the biggest difference between the Chinese and people from other countries.
無論是早年引進俄羅斯SU-27或SU-30生產(chǎn)線的中國和印度，還是引進F-16生產(chǎn)線的土耳其，它們都是組裝生產(chǎn)線。俄羅斯和美國沒有向引進國教授發(fā)動機、雷達(dá)和航電等核心技術(shù)。說白了，他們花錢購買俄羅斯或美國的戰(zhàn)斗機，但它們在購買國組裝和生產(chǎn)。一方面可以增加購買國的就業(yè)，另一方面可以讓購買國了解先進飛機的組裝過程。
組裝也是一種技術(shù)，盡管技術(shù)水平相對較低。我們中國人有句諺語：師傅領(lǐng)進門，修行在個人。這表明中國人的智商、勤奮和熱愛學(xué)習(xí)促成了中國航空技術(shù)的發(fā)展。我們通過組裝、研究、模仿和理解SU-27學(xué)到了很多核心技術(shù)。后來，中國人開發(fā)了自己的相控陣?yán)走_(dá)、自己的航電系統(tǒng)、自己的平視顯示器、自己的彈射座椅和自己的發(fā)動機。
除了外殼（中國人非常欣賞SU-27的外觀），整個飛機都換成了中國人自己制造的產(chǎn)品，即J-16。J-16的性能比SU-27領(lǐng)先一代。引進SU-30的印度和引進F-16的土耳其仍處于組裝飛機的階段，尚未真正掌握先進戰(zhàn)斗機的制造技術(shù)。這是中國人與其他國家人最大的區(qū)別。
@DuChen-py7gl India makes the Su30 MKI in keeping with the technology transfer contract they signed with Russia. The only part they do not make is the engine. India has been the most reliable customer of Russian arms because they do not violate contracts, unlike the Chinese, by buying a few copies, and then mass producing the rest illegally. Stop saying what a contract is, because is contract is whatever has been agreed on and signed. The Russians and the Indians can sign whatever they want.
印度按照與俄羅斯簽署的技術(shù)轉(zhuǎn)讓合同制造Su30 MKI。他們唯一不制造的部分是發(fā)動機。印度一直是俄羅斯武器最可靠的客戶，因為他們不違反合同，不像中國人那樣購買幾架，然后F法大規(guī)模生產(chǎn)其余的。不要再說什么合同了，因為合同就是雙方同意并簽署的東西。俄羅斯人和印度人可以簽署任何他們想要的東西。
因缺乏俄制零件及引擎，印度斯坦航空有限公司下屬一家制造蘇-30MKI的工廠于2020年3月關(guān)閉！印度根本沒能力生產(chǎn)零件！
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@MaboloLibwese
中國購買了su27的氣動布局藍(lán)圖，白癡
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Even the basic is improved, china has operated su30mkk and su30mkk2.. They were happy with them but it was out dated, the j16 is a 4.5 generation not 4 generation. It is basically like 5 generation avionic and radars and also radar absorbed paints, stealthy features are visible .. J16 is more superior to su30sm and india su30mki. .. china will have 700 J16 within the next few years, they are focus on the 6 generation while producing j20 and J35 stealth jets.
甚至基礎(chǔ)部分都有所提升，中國已經(jīng)使用了蘇30MKK和蘇30MKK2……它們曾經(jīng)很受歡迎，但已經(jīng)過時，J16是4.5代戰(zhàn)機，而不是4代戰(zhàn)機。它的航電系統(tǒng)、雷達(dá)基本相當(dāng)于5代機，且具有雷達(dá)吸波涂層，隱身特性明顯……J16優(yōu)于蘇30SM和印度的蘇30MKI……未來幾年，中國將擁有700架J16，且在生產(chǎn)J20和J35隱身戰(zhàn)機的同時，聚焦于第六代戰(zhàn)機的研發(fā)。
The Chinese j16 is a copy of the trim down Su 30 export version...it is not in any way superior to the Su 30sm or sm2
中國的J16是經(jīng)過簡化的蘇30出口版的復(fù)制品……它在任何方面都不優(yōu)于蘇30SM或SM2。
@Kullgan U know nothing .China is not India.
你什么都不知道，中國可不是印度。
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@snowlee-ml7rr Yes, and India is not China, nor does Russia equate these two countries.. but the first 2 cited copies a lot from the latter... Russia doesn't share its latest innovations nor its best technologies
是的，印度不是中國，俄羅斯也不會把這兩個國家等同起來……但前兩個國家從后者那里抄襲了很多……俄羅斯不會分享它的最新創(chuàng)新或最先進的技術(shù)。
@Kullgan no, J16 have aesa radar and they are much better than Russian radar. Chinese put aesa radar in J10/J16/J20/JF17 and almost every kind of equipment like AA or warship, Russia can not massive product aesa radar. SU35 still use pesa radar.
不，J16配備了AESA雷達(dá)，比俄羅斯雷達(dá)要強得多。中國把AESA雷達(dá)應(yīng)用于J10、J16、J20、JF17以及幾乎所有的裝備，如空空導(dǎo)彈或戰(zhàn)艦，俄羅斯無法大量生產(chǎn)AESA雷達(dá)。蘇35仍然使用PESA雷達(dá)。
@Kullgan J16 is not SU30. Don't talk until you know that. It is important to acknowledge India's backwardness.
J16 不是蘇30，別說話，直到你了解清楚為止。承認(rèn)印度的落后是很重要的。
@DuChen-py7gl improving a copy of a Bugatti's copy and trying to make it as close or better as the original doesn't make it a Bugatti...it remains a copy just like the j16...the Su 30 export version is not the domestic version of the Russians Su30...not even close...you are the one talking nonsense
改進一輛布加迪的復(fù)制品，并試圖讓它盡可能接近或超越原版，并不能讓它變成布加迪……它仍然是一個復(fù)制品，就像J16一樣……蘇30的出口版不是俄羅斯蘇30的國產(chǎn)版……差得遠(yuǎn)呢……你才是胡說八道。
@Kullgan You think india Su30 is more powerful, no matter, I agree with you. Love from CN.
你認(rèn)為印度的蘇30更強嗎？沒關(guān)系，我同意你的看法。來自中國的祝福。
@Kullgan only similar in the outside, anything else is different: engine, electronic system, weapons are all different
只是外觀相似，其他方面都不同：引擎、電子系統(tǒng)、武器都不一樣。
Bruh Russia now depend on China for anything in its war with Ukraine @Kullgan
兄弟，俄羅斯現(xiàn)在在與烏克蘭的戰(zhàn)爭中，什么都依賴中國
@Kullgan you know nothing about China. China has Su-30 already, if J16 isn't good than Su-30, China won't put J16 on mass production.
你對中國一無所知。中國已經(jīng)擁有蘇30，如果J16不比蘇30好，中國不會將J16投入量產(chǎn)。
@Kullgan the J-16 is not derived from the Su30 or any of its derivative but from the J-11BS which is an upgraded domesticated version on the Su-27UBK. So no what you’re saying is wrong
J-16并非源自蘇30或其任何衍生型，而是源自J-11BS，這是基于蘇-27UBK的升級版國產(chǎn)機型。所以你說的完全錯了。
@yae_123 without the su27 export tech, which the Chinese copied and improved... J-11 or J-16 wouldn't exist... paint it how you want, but there is a difference between developing your own tech and building unpon what you stole (f35) or scrapping and understanding what you bought so you can do better... but funnily keeping the same design and wing structure
如果沒有蘇-27的出口技術(shù)，中國復(fù)制并改進了它……J-11或J-16就不可能存在……你可以怎么涂裝都行，但開發(fā)自己技術(shù)和建立在你偷來的技術(shù)基礎(chǔ)上（比如F-35）之間是有區(qū)別的，或者拆解并理解你購買的東西，以便做得更好……但有趣的是，設(shè)計和機翼結(jié)構(gòu)卻沒有改變。
@Kullgan Well what you said was that the J-16 was a copy of the Su-30 which was wrong, it was derived from the J-11BS, but re-engineered with different layouts and material use. Given that most countries are unable to build an aircraft when provided with the entire set of blueprints, at least the Chinese are able to manufacture the flankers independently and upgrade it to be better than Russian versions. Regarding the F-35, you exhibit a crazy level of ignorance, particularly when it comes to aircraft design, because the difference between the air intakes, internal structural support, wiring, and aerodynamics is completely different between a single-engine and twin-engine design. Heck, designing an aircraft for use of a high-bypass and low-bypass engines also comes with so many differences that the similarities between the F-35 and J-31/35 is virtually zero.
你說J-16是蘇-30的復(fù)制品是錯誤的，它來源于J-11BS，但進行了重新設(shè)計，采用了不同的布局和材料。鑒于大多數(shù)國家在獲得完整藍(lán)圖后仍無法制造飛機，至少中國能夠獨立生產(chǎn)“側(cè)衛(wèi)”系列戰(zhàn)機，并將其升級到比俄羅斯版本更優(yōu)秀。至于F-35，你展現(xiàn)了極其瘋狂的無知，尤其是在飛機設(shè)計方面，因為單引擎和雙引擎設(shè)計的進氣口、內(nèi)部結(jié)構(gòu)支撐、布線和氣動性能完全不同。設(shè)計一架高旁通比和低旁通比發(fā)動機的飛機也會帶來許多差異，因此F-35與J-31/35之間的相似性幾乎為零。
@yae_123 it is not wrong as from the su27 to the su35 and su 37 prototype...they are almost the same frx/design but with different tech and different avionics its an upgrade...the Su 57 is a complete different plane. Do you understand? My reference to the F35 was regarding to it being a 5th gen...you can not make a fifth gen plane without it ticking the technology behind it hence why there is a debate regarding the su57....we are all aware how the Chinese got the tech...it is
這并不錯誤，從蘇-27到蘇-35，再到蘇-37原型機……它們幾乎是相同的框架和設(shè)計，只是采用了不同的技術(shù)和航電系統(tǒng)，這是一次升級……蘇-57則是一架完全不同的飛機。你明白嗎？我提到F-35是因為它是第五代戰(zhàn)機……如果沒有它背后的技術(shù)支持，你就無法制造第五代戰(zhàn)機，因此關(guān)于蘇-57的爭論才會存在……我們都知道中國是如何獲得這些技術(shù)的……這不是秘密。
@Frommoon-w2u dude, why are you so serious to argue with an Indian on YouTube? Simplely say Jahidi to him, that is more than enough.
兄弟，為什么你要在YouTube上和印度人爭論這么認(rèn)真？直接對他說“Jahidi”就夠了。
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@Kullgan you knew nothing about China. actually China has Su 35 and Su 30 MKK. after J-16 were built. China don't use Su 35 and Su30 MKK. actually every year we have internal competition, the Su 35 even can't beat J-10 as the radar of Su 35 is too old, all China-made new jet use ASEA radar.
你對中國一無所知。事實上，中國有蘇-35和蘇-30MKK。J-16建成后，中國就不再使用蘇-35和蘇-30MKK了。實際上，每年我們都有內(nèi)部競爭，蘇-35甚至無法戰(zhàn)勝J-10，因為蘇-35的雷達(dá)太老了，所有中國制造的新型戰(zhàn)機都使用AESA雷達(dá)。
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There are a number of errors in the video. Firstly, the Su-30 should be compared with the J11. Secondly, the Su-30 engine thrust is shown as 74.5 kN (16,700 lbf) thrust each dry, while the J16 engine thrust is shown as 135 kN (30,000 lbf) with afterburner. Dry and afterburner engine thrust are different engine operating modes. I suggest the author pay more attention to the information. It is correct to compare the J16 with the Su-35, and although it is a slightly earlier development (2008), it is still possible to make a comparison. The WS-10B turned out to be close in characteristics to the Russian AL41. The AL41 (137.3 kN (30,900 lbf) with afterburner), which is only slightly superior to the Chinese engine in afterburner thrust. And later it also received a controlled thrust vector.
視頻中有一些錯誤。首先，蘇-30應(yīng)該與J-11進行比較。其次，蘇-30的發(fā)動機推力顯示為74.5kN（16,700磅力），而J16的發(fā)動機推力顯示為135kN（30,000磅力）加力推力。干推力和加力推力是不同的發(fā)動機工作模式。我建議作者多關(guān)注信息。
J16與蘇-35的比較是正確的，盡管它的開發(fā)稍早一些（2008年），但仍然可以進行比較。WS-10B的性能與俄羅斯的AL41相近。AL41（137.3kN（30,900磅力）加力推力），它的加力推力僅比中國發(fā)動機稍強。后來，它還配備了受控推力矢量。
Lol the comparison should be with F15EX not Su30. Despite appearance J16 does not share much with Su30. The internals are completely redesigned.
哈哈，應(yīng)該與F-15EX進行比較，而不是蘇-30。盡管外觀相似，J-16與蘇-30的內(nèi)部設(shè)計完全不同。
*Good luck China from India indigenous is good thing over Western countries*
祝中國好運，來自印度，本土化比西方國家更好。
how many f15exs are there?more than 056 now?
現(xiàn)在有多少F-15EX？比056還多嗎？
but USA has only built 8 f15ex
但美國只建造了8架F-15EX。
@ganeshmk119 india great
印度棒。
@kurtji8170 I know bro
我知道，兄弟。
For me, Chinese j16 is more modern and fully equipts with latest avionics due Chinese airforces experiances for operating Russians su27,su30mk and su35s. Despite being called as a copycat, j16 is born couses Chinese demands and born due Sukhoi made is lack for something for Chinese airforces doctrin.
對我來說，中國的J-16更現(xiàn)代，配備了最新的航空電子設(shè)備，這是由于中國空軍在操作俄羅斯的蘇-27、蘇-30MK和蘇-35方面的經(jīng)驗。盡管被稱為抄襲者，但J-16是根據(jù)中國需求誕生的，源于蘇霍伊未能滿足中國空軍教義上的某些需求。
wu M
五毛
It's all fake. China only has three generations of aircraft, and it's still very weak. It's far worse than Western countries.
這一切都是假的。中國只有三代飛機，而且仍然非常弱，遠(yuǎn)遠(yuǎn)比不上西方國家。
The picture you use is actually J16 VS J11A
你用的圖片實際上是J-16對J-11A。
There are some India su 30 too.
印度也有一些蘇-30。
Nah, it’s the Su 30mkk that China bought from Russia. It can still be Russian jet. And J11 is Su-27.
不，那是中國從俄羅斯購買的蘇-30MKK。它依然是俄羅斯的戰(zhàn)機。J-11則是蘇-27。
The most critical difference is: 1. Radar & Electrical devices. 2. System & platform support.
最關(guān)鍵的區(qū)別是：1. 雷達(dá)和電子設(shè)備；2. 系統(tǒng)和平臺支持。
That was the dry thrust for the SU30s engine. The wet (afterburner) thrust is 27,560. Still less but significantly more than what you had.
那是蘇-30發(fā)動機的干推力。加力（噴管）推力是27,560。雖然推力較小，但比你們的要大得多。
US wouldn't dare to face-off its J-16s and F-15s against the MK-30s or J-16s as the usual overly hypes and brags would be again ridiculed by the world at large. Just look at the so-called advance and cutting edge US weapons that have been fully destroyed by the Russians in Kursk.
美國根本不敢讓自己的J-16和F-15與MK-30或J-16對抗，因為平時的過度夸張和吹噓將再次被世界嘲笑?？纯茨切┧^的先進尖端美國武器，它們在庫爾斯克被俄羅斯人徹底摧毀了。
wu M
五毛
@l.a_e_j5894 - TQ, it such a an excellent compliment and the idiocy of shills and trolls.
謝謝，這真是個極好的贊美，完全是傀儡和噴子的愚蠢。
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