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spec_tre
Isn't that the JMSDF Mogami

這不是日本海上自衛(wèi)隊(duì)的最上號(hào)嗎？

GabruGorilla
Yes it is. On the occasion of the commissioning of INS Surat, i wanted to see what other nations fare comparitively.

是的。在蘇拉特號(hào)服役之際，我想看看其他國(guó)家的情況如何。

ThunderWiz05
Japanese are still ahead but the gap is now very close with each new generation of ships.

日本仍處于領(lǐng)先地位，但現(xiàn)在每一代新一代船舶的差距都非常接近。

GabruGorilla
Pictured Above: JS Mogami , A Frigate.

上圖：海自最上號(hào)，一艘護(hù)衛(wèi)艦。
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Salient Features: Stealth Profile ( Very tucked in), Electric Propulsion, 127mm Gun, 16 VLS for air defence.

顯著特點(diǎn)：隱形外形（非常隱蔽）、電力推進(jìn)、127 毫米火炮、16個(gè)VLS 用于防空。

Now Japan is basically a protectorate of the US with a constitutional obligation to limit defence spending.

現(xiàn)在日本基本上是美國(guó)的保護(hù)國(guó)，有限制國(guó)防開(kāi)支的憲法義務(wù)。

Comparatively, INS Surat

相比之下，蘇拉特號(hào)

Non stealth, Noisy propulsion, 76mm gun, only 32 VLS for air defence.

非隱身，推進(jìn)噪音大，76毫米火炮，只有32個(gè)VLS用于防空。

This is a "cutting edge" Destoyer.

這是一款“尖端”驅(qū)逐艦。

With neighbours like ours, with the volume of maritime trade we have can we be so complacent?

有了我們這樣的鄰國(guó)，有了我們這樣的海上貿(mào)易量，我們能如此自滿嗎？

Expensive_Fact8168
You need to redo your definition of stealth in ships.

你需要重新定義船舶的隱身性。

Your VLS numbers are incorrect.

您的 VLS 數(shù)量不正確。

You don't know the context indian destroyer building right now.

你不知道印度現(xiàn)在驅(qū)逐艦建造的背景。

GabruGorilla
check wiki brother, only 32 Barak 8 are present.

檢查一下wiki兄弟，只有32個(gè)，采用Barak 8。

Brahmos is anti-ship/anti-surface.

布拉莫斯是反艦/反水面導(dǎo)彈。

Pray tell? What advantages are there in being outgunned.

求告知？處于劣勢(shì)算什么優(yōu)勢(shì)。

Expensive_Fact8168
Barak 8 is a SAM lM. Do you not know what a VLS is?

Barak 8 是防空導(dǎo)彈，哈哈哈。你不知道VLS是什么嗎？
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Of course you don't know about the Indian ship building with that knowledge.

當(dāng)然，你不了解印度造船業(yè)的這些知識(shí)。

Just look at the numbers that are being built and what the next class of destroyers is, I don't think anymore will be needed after that.

只要看看正在建造的數(shù)字以及下一級(jí)別的驅(qū)逐艦是什么，我認(rèn)為在那之后就不再需要說(shuō)什么了。

GabruGorilla
Barak 8 is stored in VLS no? Isn't the no. of VLS less compared to its peers.

Barak 8 是否裝在 VLS 中，沒(méi)有吧？與同行相比，VLS 數(shù)量不是更少嗎？

Also you can't ignore the reduced stealth and dated mechanical propulsion system. it's noisy and inefficient, thereby reducing range.

此外，你也不能忽視隱身性的降低和過(guò)時(shí)的機(jī)械推進(jìn)系統(tǒng)。它噪音大且效率低，從而縮小了航程。

I ask again, why are latest ships fielding dated technology?

我再問(wèn)一次，為什么最新的艦艇配備了過(guò)時(shí)的技術(shù)？

Squishy_Kitten109
By your definition of stealth 90% of stealth ships aren't stealthy. And propulsion noise in surface ships doesn't matter much anyway, you will still be detected by an underwater sonar. VL-SRSAM will probably be added in the next refit.

根據(jù)你對(duì)隱形的定義，90%的隱形艦艇都不是隱形的。無(wú)論如何，水面艦艇的推進(jìn)噪音并不重要，仍然會(huì)被水下聲納檢測(cè)到。 VL-SR 防空導(dǎo)彈可能會(huì)在下次改裝中加入。

GabruGorilla
I'm just comparing the cutting edge stuff. The Mogami was commissioned in 2022. The Surat in 2025. We're nowheee near the cutting edge.

我只是比較最前沿的東西。最上號(hào)于 2022 年投入使用。蘇拉特號(hào)于 2025 年投入使用。我們還沒(méi)有接近最前沿。

Interesting VL-SRSAM news. Is it confirmed or speculation?

有趣的 VL-SR SAM 新聞。得到證實(shí)還是猜測(cè)？

Fire_Breather178
Just by looking at the pics...there's space for more to be added. So it might just be speculation at this point.

只需看看圖片……而且它有空間增加更多裝備。所以目前這可能只是猜測(cè)。

pootis28
They're modern enough. Just terribly underarmed in terms of armament and take an extremely long time to build. They have few VLS cells, and none of them have quad packing capability. A single Type 055 frigate has nearly half the VLS cells compared to the entire Indian surface fleet(272 vs 112), and they're building 16 of them on top the several dozen Type 052D destroyers and frigates each. The main fucking culprit is that stupidass RBU-6000 which are used in every single ship that occupy space. Mainly because they're fairly cheap. Another culprit is the extensive use of CIWS, specifically the AK-630. Even our frigates have 2 CIWS. CIWS in general are fairly outdated at this point and would not be enough to defend against a saturated attack of supersonic missiles.

它們足夠現(xiàn)代。只是在武器裝備方面嚴(yán)重不足，而且需要很長(zhǎng)時(shí)間才能建造。它們的 VLS 單元很少，并且沒(méi)有一個(gè)具有四聯(lián)裝能力。一艘 055 型護(hù)衛(wèi)艦擁有的 VLS 單元就達(dá)到了整個(gè)印度海軍的一半（272 個(gè) vs 112 個(gè)），并且他們建造了16艘，還有分別有數(shù)十艘 052D 型驅(qū)逐艦和護(hù)衛(wèi)艦。主要的罪魁禍?zhǔn)资悄莻€(gè)愚蠢的RBU-6000（反潛火箭發(fā)射器），它被用在每艘船上占位置。主要是因?yàn)樗鼈兿喈?dāng)便宜。另一個(gè)罪魁禍?zhǔn)资菑V泛使用的 CIWS（近防系統(tǒng)），特別是 AK-630。甚至我們的護(hù)衛(wèi)艦也有 2 臺(tái) CIWS。目前，CIWS總體上已經(jīng)相當(dāng)過(guò)時(shí)，不足以防御超音速導(dǎo)彈的飽和攻擊。

This is a thing our future destroyer(and further ships down the line) seek to remedy. Project-18 destroyer is set to have anywhere between 126-144 VLS cells, and they'd have quad packing capability too. Too bad it's a decade away from commissioning.

這是我們未來(lái)的驅(qū)逐艦（以及未來(lái)的其他艦艇）需要解決的問(wèn)題。 Project-18 驅(qū)逐艦將配備 126-144 個(gè) VLS 單元，并且還具有四聯(lián)裝能力?？上Ь嚯x試運(yùn)行還有十年時(shí)間。

Stock_Outcome3900
Are you sure about that even combining all our destroyers' vls would be around 520

你確定嗎？即使只把我們所有驅(qū)逐艦的 vls 加起來(lái)也會(huì)在 520 個(gè)左右。

Jazzlike-Tank-4956
Great boats

很棒的船

Primary radar are one of the best

主雷達(dá)是最好的雷達(dá)之一

Replacement in future ships is basically SPY 6 and it's variants

未來(lái)艦艇基本會(huì)更換 SPY 6 及其衍生版

Secondary radars are outdated Bel radars on most ships, but they are being replaced by Lanza, which are great

大多數(shù)船上的二次雷達(dá)都是過(guò)時(shí)的 Bel 雷達(dá)，但它們正在被 Lanza 取代，Lanza 非常棒

The sonar suite is alright as per frequencies

聲納套件的頻率正常

Lack of VDS is problematic

缺乏 VDS 是有問(wèn)題的

SAMs are Barak 8s, which are extremely competent thrust vectoring active radar missile with range from 0.5km to 100km. So, unlike other SAMs like HHQ11, you don't need another set just for point blank.

地對(duì)空導(dǎo)彈是巴拉克8，這是一種非常強(qiáng)大的推力矢量主動(dòng)雷達(dá)導(dǎo)彈，射程為0.5公里至100公里。因此，與 HHQ11 等其他 SAM 不同，不需要另外一套就能進(jìn)行直接攻擊。

Though VLS count is low for these

盡管 VLS 數(shù)量對(duì)于這些艦艇來(lái)說(shuō)較低

Though, we're lacking in terms of BMD missiles like SM3 or very long range like SM6; in addition to more varity of SAMs like RIM116.

不過(guò)，我們?nèi)狈ο?SM3 這樣的 BMD 導(dǎo)彈或像 SM6 這樣的超遠(yuǎn)程導(dǎo)彈；除了 RIM116 等更多種類的 SAM 之外。

We already plan to fix these deficiencies with Project Kusha, and VL-SRSAM would also replace outdated very short range Barak 1s.

我們已經(jīng)計(jì)劃通過(guò) Kusha 項(xiàng)目來(lái)修復(fù)這些缺陷，VL-SRSAM 還將取代過(guò)時(shí)的超短程 Barak 1。

2-4 AK630 are used, whose FCS and radar is doubted but we can slav it via main radars.

使用了2-4臺(tái)AK630，其FCS和雷達(dá)受到懷疑，但我們可以通過(guò)主雷達(dá)管理它。

The gun is 76mm Otto, which is pretty competent for air defence and other roles. We were going for 127mm in Nilgiri but cost and standardisation proved to be a problem.

該炮為76毫米奧托炮，相當(dāng)能勝任防空等角色。我們?cè)谀釥柤锛?jí)選擇 127 毫米炮，但成本和標(biāo)準(zhǔn)化方面已證明有問(wèn)題。

AshM/land attack is BrahMos which is extremely competent mach 3 capable cruise missile. Now this one is much heavier than other contemporary missile so don't be surprised when it's not carried as much though counti sstill decent on destroyers.

AshM/陸地攻擊是布拉莫斯導(dǎo)彈，這是一種非常有能力的 3 馬赫巡航導(dǎo)彈。現(xiàn)在，這枚導(dǎo)彈比其他當(dāng)代導(dǎo)彈重得多，所以當(dāng)它沒(méi)有那么多攜帶時(shí)不要感到驚訝，盡管在驅(qū)逐艦上仍然算不錯(cuò)的。
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Nirbhay variants would complement these

Nirbhay 變體將補(bǔ)充這些東西

Torpedoes are competent heavy 533mm aswell, with radio guidance(?)

重型 533 毫米魚雷也很強(qiáng)大，帶有無(wú)線電制導(dǎo)（？）

Concluding, the boats are absolutely amazing with few deficiencies which we could fix in upcoming decade

總之，這些船絕對(duì)令人驚嘆，但存在一些我們?cè)谖磥?lái)十年內(nèi)難以修復(fù)的缺陷

Though, we also need to work on even better Shipbuilding efficiency and indiginous content since it has delayed our ships over and over from time and time again

盡管如此，我們還需要努力提高造船效率和本土化內(nèi)容，因?yàn)樗淮斡忠淮蔚匮诱`了我們的艦艇建造。

GabruGorilla
Thankyou for the detailed reply.

謝謝您的詳細(xì)回復(fù)。

Is the news about including VLSRSAM integration at later stage confirmed or copium?

關(guān)于后期整合 VLSRSAM 的消息已得到確認(rèn)還是嘴硬？

Also i see that we're talking to JP for their Unicorn Mast and to UK for their electric propulsion tech. Will these be included in the next generation destroyers?

我還看到我們正在與日本討論他們的獨(dú)角獸桅桿，并與英國(guó)討論他們的電力推進(jìn)技術(shù)。這些會(huì)被包含在下一代驅(qū)逐艦中嗎？

Jazzlike-Tank-4956
Unicorn mast, probably

獨(dú)角獸桅桿，可能

Electric propulsion was for our LHD afaik

如果我沒(méi)記錯(cuò)，電力推進(jìn)是為我們的 LHD 設(shè)計(jì)的

Prohect 18 would use LM2500

Prohect 18將使用LM2500

Let's see

拭目以待

It's atleast gping to replace Barak 1s

至少會(huì)取代Barak 1

Ambushido96
yeah everything navy is doing is excellent just the low VLS count per ship confuses me,

是的，海軍所做的一切都非常出色，只是每艘船低下的 VLS 數(shù)量讓我感到困惑，
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as in most navy have 1 class of ship that is 100+ vls cells we have none it is proposed now but i thought after barak and bramhos navy would try to makes ships with 100+ vls filled with baraks and bramhos or am i missing anything.

因?yàn)榇蠖鄶?shù)國(guó)家的海軍都有 1 級(jí)艦艇，裝備 100 多個(gè) vls 單元，我們現(xiàn)在沒(méi)有，但我想在獲得巴拉克和布拉莫斯之后，海軍會(huì)嘗試制造擁有 100 多個(gè) vls 的艦艇，里面裝滿巴拉克和布拉姆霍斯，或者我錯(cuò)過(guò)了什么。
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but apart from that its doing great i think.

但除此之外，我認(rèn)為它做得很好。

proto101
Mogamis are pretty poorly armed. Our destroyers are behind Aegis+ UVLS ones from US, Japan, Soko etc but way ahead of ships like Mogami or newer European frigates all of which are armed very lightly.

最上級(jí)的武裝很差。我們驅(qū)逐艦的宙斯盾+ UVLS落后于美國(guó)、日本、世宗大王等驅(qū)逐艦，但遠(yuǎn)遠(yuǎn)領(lǐng)先于最上級(jí)或較新的歐洲護(hù)衛(wèi)艦，所有這些艦艇的武裝都很弱。

Spacegeek269
What are those long stick-like things?

那些長(zhǎng)棍子一樣的東西是什么？
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KingCryptAlgo
Could have carried more missiles.

本來(lái)可以攜帶更多導(dǎo)彈。

AIM-120-AMRAAM
Every thing is modern and state of art.

一切都是現(xiàn)代且先進(jìn)的。

The only thing we lack is VLS.

我們唯一缺少的是VLS。

I’ll show how Indian Navy ships fail to utilise space for more VLS. Idk if our missiles are large or VLS take too much space or We don’t want to remove unnecessary RBU rockets on modern destroyers.

我將展示印度海軍艦艇如何未能利用空間來(lái)部署更多的垂直發(fā)射系統(tǒng)。我不知道我們的導(dǎo)彈是否很大，或者 VLS 占用了太多空間，或者我們不想從現(xiàn)代驅(qū)逐艦上拆除不必要的 RBU 火箭。

Comment Image
This is how INS Nilgiri our most modern frigate look. See the wasted space everywhere.

這就是我們最現(xiàn)代化的護(hù)衛(wèi)艦?zāi)釥柤锾?hào)的外觀。浪費(fèi)的空間隨處可見(jiàn)。

See reply for how Admiral Gorshkov frigate looks like

戈?duì)柺部品蚝＼娚蠈⑻?hào)護(hù)衛(wèi)艦長(zhǎng)什么樣見(jiàn)回復(fù)

AIM-120-AMRAAM
Admiral Gorshkov is 4,550 tons while Nilgiri is 6,670 tons. Yet Gorshkov packs wayy more firepower.

戈?duì)柺部品蚝＼娚蠈⑻?hào)為4,550噸，尼爾吉里號(hào)為6,670噸。然而戈?duì)柺部品蛱?hào)的火力要強(qiáng)大得多。

Gorshkov has 2x8=16 anti ship missiles and 32 SAMs while Nilgiri being 2000 tons heavier has only 8 Brahmos and 32 Barak SAMs.

戈?duì)柺部品蛱?hào)擁有 2x8=16 枚反艦導(dǎo)彈和 32 枚 SAM，而尼爾吉里號(hào)比它重 2000 噸，只有 8 枚布拉莫斯和 32 枚巴拉克 SAM。

Jazzlike-Tank-4956
Weight of boat is mainly concerned with what instruments you're adding in it

船的重量主要與在船上安裝的儀器有關(guān)

Nilgiri has much better sensor and radar suite, plus better propulsion dor that matter

尼爾吉里號(hào)擁有更好的傳感器和雷達(dá)套件，以及更重要的推進(jìn)力

Also, not all VLS are born equal. BrahMos is more heavy than Kalibres by more than a ton

此外，并非所有 VLS 都是一樣的。 BrahMos 比 Kalibres 重一噸多

AIM-120-AMRAAM
Cannot be heavy than Oniks which can be carrier by Gorshkov. Wiki shows both weight 3000kg.

不可能比戈?duì)柺部品蚩梢詳y帶的紅寶石導(dǎo)彈重。維基百科顯示兩者重量均為3000公斤。

Our destroyers carry too less AShMs. Similar ships of western and Chinese navy carry more.

我們的驅(qū)逐艦攜帶的反艦導(dǎo)彈太少了。西方和中國(guó)海軍的同類艦艇載彈量更多。

Dutch frigates have similar AshMs compared to INS Vishakapatnam for some reason

出于某種原因，荷蘭護(hù)衛(wèi)艦的反艦導(dǎo)彈與維沙卡帕特南號(hào)相似。
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Jazzlike-Tank-4956
BrahMos is based on Oniks. We funded an uncomplete program in 90s, which eventually became BrahMos; so I wouldn't consider it Indian even though we've largely replaced components bar the engine and a few others.

BrahMos 基于 Oniks。我們?cè)?90 年代資助了一個(gè)未完成的項(xiàng)目，最終成為 BrahMos；所以我不認(rèn)為它是印度的，盡管我們已經(jīng)更換了大部分部件（除了發(fā)動(dòng)機(jī)和其他一些部件）。

Russians usually standardise on Kalibre and other missiles with recent small shift to Zircon. Oniks is in far little use as compared to these

俄羅斯通常對(duì)“口徑”和其他導(dǎo)彈進(jìn)行標(biāo)準(zhǔn)化，最近又小幅轉(zhuǎn)向“鋯石”。與這些相比，紅寶石的用處要小得多。

western and Chinese navy carry more.

西方和中國(guó)海軍攜帶的武器更多。

Probably because these ships are based on pretty old designs, especially in times where we had limited technology and money. Kolkata Class was designed in 80/90s, and Vizag is based on the same

可能是因?yàn)檫@些船是基于相當(dāng)古老的設(shè)計(jì)，特別是在我們技術(shù)和資金有限的時(shí)代。加爾各答級(jí)是在 80/90 年代設(shè)計(jì)的，維扎克級(jí) 也是基于同樣的設(shè)計(jì)

While right now, we are in a better position, so we could build better boats, like Project 18 with 120 plus VLS and P 17B getting additional VLSs.

目前，我們的地位變好，因此我們可以建造更好的船只，例如配備 120 多個(gè) VLS 的 Project 18 和配備更多 VLS 的 P 17B。
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Some countries had help from US, and had focus on shipbuilding, like Korea so they were able to come up with Sejong the Great Class

有些國(guó)家得到了美國(guó)的幫助，專注于造船，比如韓國(guó)，所以他們能夠推出世宗大王級(jí)

Same thing as before

和以前一樣

They use Harpoons, NSMs and Tomahawk, which are much lighter

他們使用魚叉、NSM 和戰(zhàn)斧導(dǎo)彈，這些武器要輕得多

Also, Dutch Frigates might as well be classified as Destroyers as per their weigjt class and arnament plus sensors.

此外，根據(jù)其重量等級(jí)和武器加傳感器，荷蘭護(hù)衛(wèi)艦也可以歸類為驅(qū)逐艦。

Navies designate ships as per role, so right now we're seeing 12k ton ships being class Destroyers instead of cruisers while 6-8k ships are called Frigates

海軍根據(jù)角色給艦艇定名，所以現(xiàn)在有 12,000 噸級(jí)的艦艇被稱為驅(qū)逐艦，而不是巡洋艦，而 6-8,000 噸的艦艇被稱為護(hù)衛(wèi)艦
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AIM-120-AMRAAM
Dude. Everyone knows Brahmos is based on Oniks. You don’t need to type wiki page of brahmos/Oniks here.

伙計(jì)。大家都知道布拉莫斯是基于紅寶石的。你不需要在重新敲一遍布拉莫斯/紅寶石的 wiki 頁(yè)面內(nèi)容。

I wrote the comment to say Russians use the same weight class missiles as Brahmos still have more VLS than Indian ships.

我寫這篇評(píng)論是為了說(shuō)俄羅斯使用與布拉莫斯相同重量級(jí)的導(dǎo)彈，但仍然比印度艦艇擁有更多的垂直發(fā)射系統(tǒng)。

Probably

大概

Wouldn’t it be better to research before speaking if you don’t know something?

如果你不知道某個(gè)東西，在說(shuō)話之前先研究一下不是更好嗎？
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The Chinese ships are in no way “old design”

中國(guó)艦艇絕不是“舊設(shè)計(jì)”

It has nothing to do with ship design or ship being old or new.

它與船舶設(shè)計(jì)或船舶新舊無(wú)關(guān)。

My friend is a Lieutenant in IN design bureau. He says we can easily fit Vishakhpatnam class with more VLS but we decided not to.

我的朋友是IN設(shè)計(jì)局的中尉。他說(shuō)我們可以輕松地為維薩卡帕特南級(jí)配備更多 VLS，但我們決定不這樣做。

It has more to do with Indian doctrine than design. We want a deterrent navy not an attacking force. We are focussed on sea denial than aggression. Hence less missiles. This might bite us in long run.

它更多地與印度的軍事學(xué)說(shuō)有關(guān)，而不是設(shè)計(jì)。我們想要一支具有威懾力的海軍，而不是一支進(jìn)攻性部隊(duì)。我們關(guān)注的是海上拒止而不是侵略。因此導(dǎo)彈較少。從長(zhǎng)遠(yuǎn)來(lái)看，這可能會(huì)傷害我們。

I think you should study on that or ask some naval veterans on twitter some are pretty active regarding it instead of writing thesis about Oniks Destroyers and cruisers.

我認(rèn)為你應(yīng)該對(duì)此進(jìn)行研究，或者在推特上詢問(wèn)一些海軍退伍軍人，他們對(duì)此非?；钴S，而不是撰寫有關(guān)紅寶石、驅(qū)逐艦和巡洋艦的論文。
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Jazzlike-Tank-4956
Talking about Indian boats, like I explained.

正如我所解釋的，我說(shuō)的是印度船只。

Didn't even talk about Chinese

根本沒(méi)說(shuō)中國(guó)船只

on sea denial than aggression. Hence less missiles.

海上拒止而非侵略。因此導(dǎo)彈較少。

Then why do Projects 18 and 17B posses much higher VLS?

那么為什么P18和P17B擁有更多的VLS呢？

Surely got to do with cost and time aswell which would've taken for Vizag

當(dāng)然也與維扎克級(jí) 所花費(fèi)的成本和時(shí)間有關(guān)

I'm aware about their doctrine

我了解他們的軍事學(xué)說(shuō)。

AIM-120-AMRAAM
Why

為什么

Coz except Indian navy all other navies are doing it. 3-4 Chinese ships will have more Ashms than entire Indian navy destroyers at this point.

因?yàn)槌擞《群＼娭?，所有其他海軍都在這樣做。目前，3-4艘中國(guó)艦艇的反艦導(dǎo)彈數(shù)量將超過(guò)印度海軍的全部驅(qū)逐艦。

New Type 055 destroyers have 136 VLS compared to 48 VLS of IN destroyers.

新型 055 型驅(qū)逐艦擁有 136 個(gè) VLS，而印度海軍驅(qū)逐艦只有 48 個(gè) VLS。

IN is losing the displacement, armament as well as numbers game against China so they have to up everything.

印度在排水量、武器裝備和數(shù)量上都輸給了中國(guó)，所以他們必須全力以赴。

India is changing its tactics entirely based on its enemies.

印度正在完全根據(jù)敵人來(lái)改變其策略。

Also where did MoD or Navy specify there will be more VLS in 17B?

另外，國(guó)防部或海軍在哪里說(shuō)了 17B 中將有更多 VLS？

Also project 18 is not even properly noted on GoI’s documents. It will take 10 years to complete.

此外，GoI 的文件中甚至沒(méi)有正確注明P18。需要10年時(shí)間才能完成。

China is churning out 4-5 destroyed a year

中國(guó)每年推出4-5艘

Jazzlike-Tank-4956
I don't remember clearly but I'll let you know tomorrow

我記不太清楚了，不過(guò)明天我會(huì)告訴你的
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Iirc, it was basically based on stated larger displacement and much higher costs in addition to design and component changes oweing to various components being in negative import list like MF-STAR

如果我沒(méi)記錯(cuò)，它基本上是基于規(guī)定的更大的排量和更高的成本，以及由于各種部件被列入負(fù)面進(jìn)口清單（如 MF-STAR）而導(dǎo)致的設(shè)計(jì)和部件變化

I'll still take it with a pinch of salt

我依然會(huì)帶著懷疑看待。
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AIM-120-AMRAAM
Good for yon. Unlike you I dont take random whatsapp news as trusted.

你隨便。與你不同，我不相信隨機(jī)的朋友圈新聞。

Just few days more till your FICV is unveiled remember your claims?

距離您的 FICV 公布還有幾天，還記得您的說(shuō)法嗎？

PotatoEatingHistory
Exceptional in most ways except armament quantities

除軍備數(shù)量外，在大多數(shù)方面都表現(xiàn)出色

voltrix_raider
The older ones, not great. Rajput class boats and soviet boats are pretty old though they have been somewhat modernized. The newer Project 15B and 15A destroyers, are very good. Even our new frigates are pretty good. Modern radars, missiles, EW suites, etc. Navy has done an excellent job with the modernization of their surface fleet. The submarine fleet needs work but inducting Scorpene class submarines is a good start.

比較老，并不好。拉杰普特級(jí)艦艇和來(lái)自蘇聯(lián)的艦艇雖然已經(jīng)進(jìn)行了一定程度的現(xiàn)代化改造，但相當(dāng)老舊。較新的 Project 15B 和 15A 驅(qū)逐艦非常好。即使我們的新護(hù)衛(wèi)艦也相當(dāng)不錯(cuò)?，F(xiàn)代雷達(dá)、導(dǎo)彈、電子戰(zhàn)套件等。海軍在水面艦隊(duì)的現(xiàn)代化方面做得非常出色。潛艇艦隊(duì)需要改進(jìn)，但引進(jìn)鲉魚級(jí)潛艇是一個(gè)好的開(kāi)始。

Eternal_awp
Quite modern

相當(dāng)現(xiàn)代

Soumya_Adrian
SUFFICIENTLY MODERN

足夠現(xiàn)代

GabruGorilla
> Non stealth, Noisy propulsion, 76mm gun, only 32 VLS for air defence.

> 非隱身、推進(jìn)噪音大、76 毫米火炮、僅 32個(gè)VLS 用于防空。

Soumya_Adrian
How did u conclude these ??? Which ships are u referring ?

你是怎么得出這些結(jié)論的？你指的是哪艘船？

76mm gun, only 32 VLS for air defence.

76毫米火炮，只有32個(gè)VLS用于防空。

So...???

所以... ？？？

GabruGorilla
No electric propulsion, antennas sticking out.

沒(méi)有電力推進(jìn)，天線顯眼。

印度軍迷：我們海軍艦艇的現(xiàn)代化程度如何？

印度軍迷：我們海軍艦艇的現(xiàn)代化程度如何？