美知乎討論：匈奴、突厥為何最終都被中國王朝打敗甚至臣服？
Why were the Huns (Xiongnu) and Turks eventually defeated or even surrendered to the Chinese dynasties?
譯文簡介
美知乎討論....
正文翻譯
評論翻譯
很贊 ( 29 )
收藏
This is actually normal. The ancient Chinese Central Plains dynasty, or the so-called Han Dynasty, was often far superior to the nomads in terms of military technology, organization, and economy. Many times, only when the Chinese dynasty itself was in turmoil did the nomads have the opportunity to invade or even successfully control some regional cities.
And many times, nomads, such as the xiongnu, often adopted guerrilla warfare and harassment tactics. The reason why the Chinese invented the Great Wall is that nomads often like to choose to harass and rob on the border, but many times you can't catch up with them. Nomads generally don't have a fixed place to live, so the Great Wall was born.
Back to the topic itself. The Han Dynasty and the Tang Dynasty are recognized as one of the most glorious dynasties in Chinese history. Whether in military technology, military size or economic strength, they were one of the most powerful empires in the world at that time. It is also normal that the xiongnu and Turks were eventually defeated, and some of them eventually surrendered and served in the Chinese army.
這其實(shí)很正常。古代中國的中原王朝，即所謂的漢朝，在軍事技術(shù)、組織和經(jīng)濟(jì)方面往往遠(yuǎn)遠(yuǎn)優(yōu)于游牧民族。很多時(shí)候，只有當(dāng)中國王朝本身陷入動蕩時(shí)，游牧民族才有機(jī)會入侵甚至成功控制一些地區(qū)城市。
很多時(shí)候，像匈奴這樣的游牧民族經(jīng)常采用游擊戰(zhàn)和騷擾戰(zhàn)術(shù)。中國人發(fā)明長城的原因是因?yàn)橛文撩褡褰?jīng)常選擇在邊境進(jìn)行騷擾和搶劫，但很多時(shí)候你無法追上他們。游牧民族通常沒有固定的居住地，因此長城應(yīng)運(yùn)而生。
回到話題本身。漢朝和唐朝被認(rèn)為是中國歷史上最輝煌的王朝之一。無論是在軍事技術(shù)、軍隊(duì)規(guī)模還是經(jīng)濟(jì)實(shí)力上，它們都是當(dāng)時(shí)世界上最強(qiáng)大的帝國之一。匈奴和突厥最終被擊敗，甚至其中有些人最終投降并服務(wù)于中國軍隊(duì)，這也是很正常的。
Your non - continuous civilizations simply can't understand our culture. In each of our dynasties, the history of the previous dynasty was recorded, and these records are known as the Twenty - Four Histories (compiled by government - organized efforts). What changes is the ruling and administrative organization, but the main culture represents China. Whether it is the Yuan Dynasty ruled by the Mongols or the Qing Dynasty ruled by the Manchus, they all called themselves China. Countries without continuous civilizations can only understand that the government represents the country. In Chinese civilization, the government is just a ruling and administrative organization. It doesn't represent all the elements of China; it is merely a management organization. If this management organization fails to manage properly, the Chinese people will overthrow it and elect a new management organization. That's why there have been many dynasties in China.
你們不連續(xù)的文明根本就理解不了我們的文化。我們每一個(gè)朝代，都記載了前一個(gè)朝代的歷史，這些記載被稱為二十四史（由政府組織編纂）。變化的是統(tǒng)治和行政機(jī)構(gòu)，但主體文化始終是中華文化在傳承。無論是蒙古人統(tǒng)治的元朝，還是滿族統(tǒng)治的清朝，都稱自己為中國。沒有連續(xù)文明的國家只能理解政府代表國家。在中國文明中，政府只是一個(gè)統(tǒng)治和行政機(jī)構(gòu)。它并不代表中國的所有要素；它只是一個(gè)管理機(jī)構(gòu)。如果這個(gè)管理機(jī)構(gòu)管理不善，中國人民就會推翻它，選舉一個(gè)新的管理機(jī)構(gòu)。這就是為什么中國會有很多朝代。
Sure they did. Different people, speaking different languages, took rurns conquering each other. Your claim of continuous culture makes as much sense as saying that no matter who was in charge, Europe was still
當(dāng)然。不同的人，說著不同的語言，輪流征服對方。你所說的文化連續(xù)性，就如同說無論誰掌權(quán)，歐洲也是如此。
原創(chuàng)翻譯：龍騰網(wǎng) http://mintwatchbillionaireclub.com 轉(zhuǎn)載請注明出處
Europe is different. Europe doesn't have a unified civilization as its foundation. China, on the other hand, is based on Chinese civilization. The Mongols and the Manchus who came to rule China mainly focused on inheriting and developing Chinese culture. Therefore, they followed the systems and traditions of the previous dynasties, made extensive use of Confucian - minded officials, and continued to promote the educational system of Chinese civilization. Many Confucian academies emerged during the Yuan Dynasty, and the same was true for the Qing Dynasty.
Europe is a different story. In Europe, countries are independent, and religions are exclusive, which has led to many religious wars. It's a black - and - white situation where people only believe in their own gods and need to eliminate others' gods. The famous Crusades are a prime example.
In Chinese civilization, co - prosperity is emphasized, and harmony is highly valued. Just like in the theory of yin and yang and the Taiji diagram, there is white in black and black in white. Chinese people don't think that all things are one - sided. There is good in bad and bad in good, and there is no absolute right or wrong. So, China doesn't export its experience, unlike the West, which likes to export its democratic civilization and believes that its own is the only good one. Every civilization needs a solution that suits it. Thus, the situation in Europe is completely different.
Here is another difference. China has many different religions, such as Buddhism, Taoism, Islam, etc., but there have never been any religious wars because religion has never been able to influence politics. This has avoided the emergence of extreme ideas.
歐洲則不同，歐洲沒有統(tǒng)一的文明作為基礎(chǔ)，而中國則以中華文明為基礎(chǔ)，蒙古、滿族統(tǒng)治中國后，主要著眼于繼承和發(fā)展中華文化，因此沿襲前朝的制度和傳統(tǒng)，大量任用儒家學(xué)者為官員，繼續(xù)推行中華文明的教育制度，元朝出現(xiàn)了許多書院，清朝也是如此。
歐洲則不同。在歐洲，國家獨(dú)立，宗教排他，導(dǎo)致了許多宗教戰(zhàn)爭。這是一個(gè)非黑即白的局面，人們只相信自己的神，需要消滅別人的神。著名的十字軍東征就是一個(gè)典型的例子。
中國文明強(qiáng)調(diào)共榮，高度重視和諧。就像陰陽理論和太極圖一樣，黑中有白，白中有黑。中國人不認(rèn)為所有事物都是片面的。好中有壞，好中有壞，沒有絕對的對錯(cuò)。所以，中國不輸出自己的經(jīng)驗(yàn)，不像西方喜歡輸出自己的民主文明，認(rèn)為自己的文明才是最好的。每個(gè)文明都需要一個(gè)適合自己的解決方案。因此，歐洲的情況完全不同。
這是另一個(gè)不同之處。中國有佛教、道教、伊斯蘭教等多種宗教，但從來沒有發(fā)生過宗教戰(zhàn)爭，因?yàn)樽诮虖膩砭筒荒苡绊懻?，這就避免了極端思想的產(chǎn)生。
Their land were same size, but north China population out number them near 5–10 times, the only time Chinese in inferior manpower compare to Barbarian were 5 Barbarians period (and they already relocated inside of great wall prior Rebellion.).
他們的土地面積相同，但華北的人口數(shù)量卻比他們多出近 5-10 倍，中國唯一一次人力上不如蠻族的時(shí)期是 五胡亂華時(shí)期（而且他們在叛亂之前就已經(jīng)遷移到長城內(nèi)了）。
If the Chinese were so successful why did they had to build this?
如果中國人如此成功為什么他們要建造這個(gè)？（長城）
吃肉喝酒 · Feb 17
its kind of hilarious some fake turks wants to become chinas enemy most of the real turks has either been absorbed fled or wiped out throughout history
when i see fake turks acting tough i remind them they look no different than a mixbag of greek and arab instead of claiming ottomans territory back they claim central asia into to china
dont bite off more than u can chew turkey still in nato faking bout the turks solidarity without nukes them real turks arent stupid when shit hit the fan
因?yàn)闈h朝有足夠的資源，為什么不能這么做呢？而奧斯曼帝國呢？一千年后，奧斯曼帝國仍然沒有任何接近中國長城的東西。
有點(diǎn)可笑的是，一些假突厥人想成為中國的敵人，而歷史上大多數(shù)真正的突厥人要么被同化，要么逃亡，要么被消滅。
當(dāng)我看到假突厥人裝強(qiáng)硬時(shí)，我會提醒他們，他們看起來和希臘人與阿拉伯人的混血沒什么區(qū)別。他們不去爭取奧斯曼帝國的領(lǐng)土，反而聲索中亞甚至中國的領(lǐng)土。
別貪多嚼不爛，土耳其還在北約里裝模作樣地談突厥團(tuán)結(jié)，卻沒有核武器。真正的突厥人可不傻，當(dāng)事情變得糟糕時(shí)，他們知道該怎么做。
However, according to historical records, the Han Dynasty did defeat the xiongnu, the Tang Dynasty did defeat the Turks, and some xiongnu and Turks surrendered and served in the Chinese army. Some fled to Europe. This is the essence of the question, you did not answer this question
但是根據(jù)史料記載，漢朝確實(shí)打敗了匈奴，唐朝也確實(shí)打敗了突厥，而且有一部分匈奴和突厥投降了，進(jìn)入了中國軍隊(duì)，有一部分逃往歐洲，這才是問題的本質(zhì)，你沒有回答這個(gè)問題。
Barbarian success: killing, invading, plundering.
The success of Chinese people: living and working in peace and contentment, living in peace and happiness.
When you talk about success, you must be thinking of looting and killing.
When I talk about success, I think about whether people have peaceful, happy lives.
China built the Great Wall to protect a peaceful and happy life. We did not destroy the surrounding enemies, not because we are weak, but because we are in a more advanced civilization.
蠻夷的成功：殺戮、侵略、掠奪。
中國人的成功：安居樂業(yè)，生活安寧幸福。
你講成功，想的一定是搶劫殺戮。
我講成功，想的則是人民是否過著安寧、幸福的生活。
中國修建長城，就是為了保護(hù)和平幸福的生活。我們沒有消滅周圍的敵人，不是因?yàn)槲覀內(nèi)?，而是因?yàn)槲覀兲幱诟冗M(jìn)的文明。
There’re two major versions of the wall historically:
The version 1 built in 3rd century BC was to defend against the xiongnus, which has demonstrated to be Proto-Turkic by linguistic researches. Built with mud bricks, It has been almost completely worn by time and disappeared.
By the fall of the Tang dynasty (early 10th century AD) all Turks accessible to China have being Sinified or converted to allies like Shatuo Turks and Yenisei Kyrkyz. From then on the only nomadic threat was from the Mongolic groups in the north east direction, firstly Khitans, and then Mongols. The version 2 of the wall was built in 15th century to defend against Mongols after they were driven away from inland China. It’s what’s shown in picture, build with stone bricks and still stands out today.
The wall was a very inefficient strategy to defend against the nomad invasions and wasn’t worth the efforts invested for the constructions in terms of being a fortification. However, it might also serve another two purposes: 1. exploit the labor to reduce the chance of peasant revolts (although it always worked in the other way in the end) 2. prevent Han Chinese to escape the tyranny and migrate to join the nomads and spread the labors and technologies there.
歷史上長城有兩種主要版本：
第一種版本建于公元前 3 世紀(jì)，用于防御匈奴，語言研究表明匈奴屬于原始突厥語。長城用泥磚建造，幾乎完全被時(shí)間磨損并消失了。
到唐朝滅亡（公元 10 世紀(jì)初），所有進(jìn)入中國的突厥人都被漢化或皈依為沙陀突厥和葉尼塞吉爾吉斯人等盟友。從那時(shí)起，唯一的游牧威脅來自東北方向的蒙古族，首先是契丹人，然后是蒙古人。第二種版本的長城建于 15 世紀(jì)，用于防御被趕出中國內(nèi)陸的蒙古人。它就是圖片中展示的長城，用石磚建造，至今仍屹立不倒。
修筑長城是抵御游牧民族入侵的一種非常低效的策略，作為防御工事并不值得付出努力。但是，它也可能起到另外兩個(gè)作用：1. 剝削勞動力以減少農(nóng)民起義的可能性（盡管最終總是起到相反的作用）2. 防止?jié)h人逃離暴政并遷移到游牧民族，并在那里傳播勞動力和技術(shù)。
Nomadic tribes would invade or plunder the borders of the Central Plains dynasties, but they did not occupy the territories. Therefore, the construction of defensive structures served the same purpose as European castles – as a measure of defense. These European castles also couldn't prevent the Mongol invasions, so the idea is similar. Offense and defense are common in warfare, as seen in the wars between the Han Dynasty and the xiongnu. The Han Dynasty defended for nearly a century, but eventually, Emperor Wu's counterattacks drove the xiongnu into Central Asia and Europe, and they disappeared from history. The wars between the Tang Dynasty and the Turks were similar. Emperor Taizong of Tang stabilized relations with the Turks through marriage alliances, and once his power grew strong, the Turks were driven out of the Mongolian Plateau and retreated to Central Asia and the Middle East. It's like a spear and a shield—do you think the spear is more powerful, or the shield? Now, you should realize that your answer is immature and lacks depth.
游牧民族會入侵或掠奪中原王朝的邊境，但并不占領(lǐng)領(lǐng)土，所以防御工事的建造和歐洲的城堡是一樣的，都是防御手段。歐洲的城堡也無法阻擋蒙古人的入侵，所以思路是類似的。攻守是戰(zhàn)爭的常態(tài)，漢朝與匈奴的戰(zhàn)爭就是明證，漢朝防守了近百年，但最終被漢武帝的反攻，將匈奴趕入中亞和歐洲，從此在歷史上銷聲匿跡。唐朝與突厥的戰(zhàn)爭也是類似的，唐太宗通過聯(lián)姻穩(wěn)定了與突厥的關(guān)系，在唐朝強(qiáng)大起來后，突厥被趕出蒙古高原，退守中亞和中東。就像矛和盾，你覺得矛厲害，還是盾厲害？現(xiàn)在，你應(yīng)該意識到你的回答不成熟，而且缺乏深度。
It is the way of things, don’t complain, Nomads does not have the resources the Chinese had. Not enough water to irrigate farms. Steppes are hard. They have to constantly hunt, graze their animals and move and migrate. They eat mostly meat, become larger and better fighters. And yes nomads raid loot and steal from sedentary peaceful people.
It is the law of nature. Wolves eat sheep. That doesn’t make wolves evil, or sheep good. It is nature.
The question was in condescending nature. I answered asking a simple question and the Chinese in the comment section went nuts. An shallow answer to a shallow question.
If you were so high and mighty why did you had to build that bigass wall?
We all know the answer to the question. Chinese all too well, judging on the reactions.
事情就是這樣，別抱怨，游牧民族沒有中國人那樣的資源。沒有足夠的水來灌溉農(nóng)田。草原生活很艱難。他們必須不斷狩獵、放牧動物、遷徙。他們主要吃肉，體型更大，戰(zhàn)斗力更強(qiáng)。是的，游牧民族會劫掠和偷竊定居的和平人民。
這是自然法則。狼吃羊。這并不意味著狼是邪惡的，羊也不是善良的。這是自然規(guī)律。
這個(gè)問題帶有一種居高臨下的性質(zhì)。我回答了一個(gè)簡單的問題，評論區(qū)的中國人都瘋了。對一個(gè)膚淺問題的膚淺回答。
如果你如此高高在上，為什么要建那么大的墻？
我們都知道這個(gè)問題的答案。中國人太了解了，從反應(yīng)來看。
Nomadic peoples are generally shorter than Chinese people. Even the average height of Mongolians today is obviously shorter than that of Chinese people. There were also such excavations and measurements in ancient times. I hope you have done the most basic research before making ridiculous remarks.
游牧民族普遍比中國人矮，就連今天蒙古人的平均身高也明顯比中國人矮，古代也有這樣的發(fā)掘和測量，希望大家在發(fā)表可笑言論之前，先做最基礎(chǔ)的研究。
原創(chuàng)翻譯：龍騰網(wǎng) http://mintwatchbillionaireclub.com 轉(zhuǎn)載請注明出處
Firstly, the fact that the question itself is based on historical reality is undeniable. However, your response reeks of sourness and pettiness. The elimination and expulsion of the xiongnu and Turks from the grasslands do not necessarily prove that the other side had stronger combat capabilities. This is also part of the natural law. Since it is a natural development, you should answer directly and squarely. Hiding and evading cannot erase the facts.
It's important to note that historical events are complex and multi - faceted. We should view them obxtively and comprehensively, rather than making one - sided and narrow - minded judgments. China's history is filled with a rich tapestry of interactions, not just simple conquests or defeats. These historical processes are the result of a combination of various factors such as politics, economy, culture, and military strategies, not something that can be simply explained away with such simplistic views.
We demand an obxtive and respectful attitude towards history, rather than such dismissive and inaccurate remarks.
首先，這個(gè)問題本身有歷史事實(shí)，這一點(diǎn)毋庸置疑，但你的回答卻透著一股酸溜溜的、小氣的意味。匈奴和突厥被消滅、趕出草原，并不代表對方戰(zhàn)斗力更強(qiáng)，這也是自然規(guī)律，既然是自然發(fā)展，就應(yīng)該直言不諱，掩蓋和回避不能抹殺事實(shí)。
需要注意的是，歷史事件錯(cuò)綜復(fù)雜，我們應(yīng)該客觀全面地看待，而不是片面、狹隘地判斷。中國歷史充滿了豐富的互動，不是簡單的征服或失敗，是政治、經(jīng)濟(jì)、文化、軍事戰(zhàn)略等多種因素共同作用的結(jié)果，不是用這種簡單的觀點(diǎn)就能解釋清楚的。
我們要求客觀、尊重歷史，而不是發(fā)表這種輕視、失實(shí)的言論。
Because ancient China had very advanced steel smelting technology.
In the Warring States Period, Chinese princes had mastered steelmaking technology. Although the cost of smelting steel for the entire weapon was too high, using steel on the blade could effectively increase the power of the weapon and more easily penetrate the armor that was popular at the time. The hardness and toughness of steel far exceeded that of bronze, and it was not easy to break. At this time, the Chinese princes began to have a technical advantage over the "barbarians".
During the Han Dynasty, there was a saying that "one Han is five Hu(barbarians)". Of course, a Han person could not compare with five "barbarians" in terms of strength, but the advancement of weapons and armor could offset these gaps. In the Han Dynasty, iron armor was able to equip some elite troops. In order to maintain its technological advantage over nomadic peoples, strict trade control was implemented on the border since the Han Dynasty. Iron weapons are strictly prohibited from export. Violators will be charged with treason and will be subject to very cruel death penalty (such as beheading, etc.).
因?yàn)楣糯袊鴵碛蟹浅Ｏ冗M(jìn)的鋼鐵冶煉技術(shù)。
在戰(zhàn)國時(shí)期，中國的諸侯已經(jīng)掌握了煉鋼技術(shù)。雖然為整個(gè)武器冶煉鋼鐵的成本太高，但在刀刃上使用鋼鐵可以有效增加武器的威力，并更容易穿透當(dāng)時(shí)流行的盔甲。鋼的硬度和韌性遠(yuǎn)遠(yuǎn)超過青銅，而且不容易斷裂。此時(shí)，中國的諸侯開始對“野蠻人”擁有技術(shù)優(yōu)勢。
在漢朝，有一種說法是“一漢當(dāng)五胡”。當(dāng)然，一個(gè)漢人在力量上無法與五個(gè)“胡人”相比，但武器和盔甲的進(jìn)步可以彌補(bǔ)這些差距。在漢朝，鐵甲已經(jīng)能夠裝備一些精銳部隊(duì)。為了保持對游牧民族的技術(shù)優(yōu)勢，自漢朝以來，邊境實(shí)施了嚴(yán)格的貿(mào)易控制。鐵武器嚴(yán)禁出口，違者將以叛國罪論處，并處以非常殘酷的死刑（如斬首等）。
原創(chuàng)翻譯：龍騰網(wǎng) http://mintwatchbillionaireclub.com 轉(zhuǎn)載請注明出處
About xiongnu
xiongnu started rising in the same period which Qin Dynasty finished unifying of China, And during the establishment of the Han Dynasty, due to its involvement into a civil war of Han Dynasty, it fell into a regional power struggle with the Han Dynasty that lasted for hundreds of years, until the Han Dynasty completely won to end. After the falling of the Han Dynasty and Jin Dynasty, although some descendants of the xiongnu people once established regional power in northern China, but those xiongnu rulers were no longer the true xiongnu people, but Sinicized xiongnu warlords. The regional regimes they established were in no different from other Chinese warlord regimes at the same time.
As for the reason for the defeat of the xiongnu, it is actually very simple. They were unable to defeat the Han army in a long-term war. Although the early xiongnu gained absolute mobility advantage in warfare through their astonishingly large cavalry corps, they were never able to win the face to face combat. Generally, only with a numerical advantage of at least three times or more can the xiongnu army defeat the regular army of the Han Dynasty.
關(guān)于匈奴：
匈奴的崛起與秦朝統(tǒng)一中國的時(shí)間相同，而在漢朝建立期間，由于匈奴卷入了漢朝的內(nèi)戰(zhàn)，它與漢朝陷入了持續(xù)數(shù)百年的地區(qū)權(quán)力斗爭，直到漢朝完全獲勝為止。在漢朝和晉朝滅亡后，盡管一些匈奴后裔曾在中國北方建立了地區(qū)政權(quán)，但這些匈奴統(tǒng)治者已不再是真正的匈奴人，而是漢化的匈奴軍閥。他們建立的地區(qū)政權(quán)與當(dāng)時(shí)其他中國軍閥政權(quán)并無不同。
至于匈奴失敗的原因，其實(shí)很簡單。他們無法在長期戰(zhàn)爭中擊敗漢軍。盡管早期的匈奴通過其龐大的騎兵部隊(duì)在戰(zhàn)爭中獲得了絕對的機(jī)動性優(yōu)勢，但他們從未能在正面戰(zhàn)斗中獲勝。通常，匈奴軍隊(duì)只有在至少三倍或更多的數(shù)量優(yōu)勢下才能擊敗漢朝的正規(guī)軍。
The conquest of China by nomads was an extremely accidental event. For thousands of years, the only nomads who completely conquered China were the Mongols. But don't forget that Kublai Khan himself was a thoroughly sinicized Mongol. He used a large number of Han warlords to defeat the Mongolian people and then conquered China. It took the Mongols nearly half a century to conquer China (Song Dynasty).
The Manchus were not nomads, but fishing and hunting tribes from Northeast Asia; secondly, the Manchus did not even destroy the Ming Dynasty, and China (Ming Dynasty) was destroyed in serious civil strife.
So, thinking about it this way, it is not surprising that the Huns or Turks eventually lost to the Chinese or even surrendered. In the final analysis, the Chinese dynasty was always one of the most powerful empires in the world during its heyday and when there was no civil strife. Hard power itself is indeed stronger than that of nomads, but every Chinese dynasty will have serious civil strife.
游牧民族征服中國是一個(gè)極其偶然的事件。幾千年來，唯一一次徹底征服中國的牧民族是蒙古人。但別忘了忽必烈本人是一個(gè)徹底中國化的蒙古人。他利用大量漢族軍閥擊敗了蒙古人民，然后征服了中國。蒙古人用了近半個(gè)世紀(jì)才征服了中國（宋朝）。
滿族不是游牧民族，而是來自東北亞的漁獵部族；其次，滿族甚至沒有滅亡明朝，中國（明朝）在嚴(yán)重的內(nèi)亂中亡國。
所以，這么一想，匈奴或者突厥最終敗給中國人，甚至投降，非常不足為奇了。歸根結(jié)底，中國王朝鼎盛時(shí)期，沒有內(nèi)亂的時(shí)候，一直都是世界上最強(qiáng)大的帝國之一。硬實(shí)力本身確實(shí)比游牧民族強(qiáng)，但每個(gè)中國王朝都會有嚴(yán)重的內(nèi)亂。
Many good answers under this question, free of Chinese and Turkic bias.
If we summarize it:
Sedentary, farming, hierarchical societies eventually but certainly defeat nomadic, herder, anarchic societies.
The above fact is what happened between Hunnic/Turkic Steppe Confederations and Chinese Empires under various dynasties.
That is called sociology.
Sedentary, farming, hierarchical societies can be defeated only by natural and internal reasons: a civilisation wiping natural disaster, under-population disaster or internal civil collapse.
這個(gè)問題下有很多很好的回答，沒有中國和突厥的偏見。
如果我們總結(jié)一下：
定居、農(nóng)耕、等級社會最終必然會擊敗游牧、放牧、無政府的社會。
上述事實(shí)就是匈奴/突厥草原聯(lián)盟與各朝代中國帝國之間發(fā)生的事情。
這就是社會學(xué)。
定居、農(nóng)耕、等級社會只能被自然和內(nèi)部原因擊敗：導(dǎo)致文明毀滅的是自然災(zāi)害、人口不足的災(zāi)難或內(nèi)部崩潰。
The Defeat of the Huns (xiongnu) and Turks by Chinese Dynasties: An Academic Research Report
Introduction
The Huns, also known as the xiongnu, and the Turks were formidable nomadic empires that posed significant threats to various Chinese dynasties over centuries. Their eventual defeat and surrender to these dynasties can be attributed to a combination of military strategies, diplomatic maneuvers, and internal divisions within the nomadic confederations. This report explores the historical context, key battles, and strategic factors that led to the downfall of these powerful nomadic groups.
匈奴和突厥被中國王朝擊?。簩W(xué)術(shù)研究報(bào)告（鏈接）
引言
匈奴和突厥是強(qiáng)大的游牧帝國，幾個(gè)世紀(jì)以來對各個(gè)中國王朝構(gòu)成了重大威脅。他們最終被這些王朝擊敗并投降，可以歸因于軍事戰(zhàn)略、外交手段和游牧聯(lián)盟內(nèi)部的分裂。本報(bào)告探討了導(dǎo)致這些強(qiáng)大游牧群體衰落的歷史背景、關(guān)鍵戰(zhàn)役和戰(zhàn)略因素。
China had already achieved a common language before Christ, was organized as a single state, and was perhaps the most technologically superior society in the world until the 15th-16th centuries. It had an abnormal population and very rich underground and aboveground resources in every period.
The Turks and Huns were very powerful. The nomads who came to Europe were the weakest in the steppe. Each of them (except the Golden Horde) had lost the power struggle in the east and fled to the west to save their lives. The strongest were in Mongolia. The successes of weaker groups in the west than their relatives in the east can give an idea of ??how strong those who remained in the east were. And yet... China's power was abnormal even for them. The fact that the Hsiung-nu and the Turks had even temporarily gained an advantage over the united Chinese states was a great success. They had little chance against an organized human force that was more than 30 times their size and lived on rich lands.
中國在公元前就已經(jīng)實(shí)現(xiàn)了語言統(tǒng)一，組織成一個(gè)單一的國家，并且在15-16世紀(jì)之前可能是世界上技術(shù)最先進(jìn)的社會。它在每個(gè)時(shí)期都有異常多的人口和非常豐富的地下和地上資源。
突厥和匈奴非常強(qiáng)大。來到歐洲的游牧民族是草原上最弱的。他們中的每一個(gè)（除了金帳汗國）都在東部的權(quán)力斗爭中失敗，逃到西部以保全性命，最強(qiáng)大的則留在蒙古草原。西部較弱的群體的成功可以讓人想到留在東部的那些人是多么強(qiáng)大。然而……中國的力量對他們來說也是非同一般的。匈奴和突厥甚至?xí)簳r(shí)獲得了對統(tǒng)一的中國國家的優(yōu)勢，這是一個(gè)巨大的成功。他們幾乎沒有機(jī)會對抗一個(gè)規(guī)模是他們30倍以上、生活在富饒土地上的有組織的人類力量。
They could not get enough grazing pasture for their main work animals, horses and the yurt oxen. Then the Bubonic plague started to destroy city trading centers throughout parts of Egypt, the Middle East, Balkans, Central Asia, and parts of the Mediterranean.
China had used bathing rituals as a means of warding off skin diseases and rheumatism or arthritis.
The Huns or xiongnu and Central Asian Turks were semi nomadic peoples that hardly used fully nude bathing rituals.
The Bubonic plague, carried by fleas feasted on European, African, and Middle eastern cultures that shunned bodily bathing and or personal hygiene. The French during the Renaissance were famous for using perfume to hide bodily odors due to the cultural lack of bathing and hygiene. Sailors were also notoriously gross when it came to using communal seaship bathrooms. Most could swim but failed to take care of personal hygiene like the nomadic cultures of the Eurasian landscape.
他們無法為他們的主要工作動物——馬和蒙古?！@得足夠的牧場。然后，鼠疫開始摧毀埃及、中東、巴爾干、中亞和地中海部分地區(qū)的城市貿(mào)易中心。
中國使用沐浴的方式作為預(yù)防皮膚病和風(fēng)濕病或關(guān)節(jié)炎的手段。
匈奴和中亞突厥人是半游牧民族，幾乎不使用完全裸體的沐浴方式。
鼠疫由跳蚤傳播，肆虐于那些回避身體沐浴或不保持個(gè)人衛(wèi)生的歐洲、非洲和中東文化。文藝復(fù)興時(shí)期的法國人以使用香水掩蓋體臭而聞名，這是由于文化上缺乏沐浴和衛(wèi)生。水手在使用公共船用浴室時(shí)也以粗俗著稱。大多數(shù)人會游泳，但未能像歐亞大陸的游牧文化那樣照顧個(gè)人衛(wèi)生。
The Huns (xiongnu) and various Turkic groups were formidable steppe nomads, but over time, many of them were defeated or assimilated by Chinese dynasties. Several key reasons contributed to their downfall or eventual surrender:
Internal Fragmentation & Civil Wars
xiongnu: After a period of dominance, the xiongnu Confederation fractured due to internal disputes, leading to the split between the Southern xiongnu (who later submitted to the Han dynasty) and the Northern xiongnu (who were pushed westward).
Turks: The G?ktürk Khaganate was weakened by internal power struggles, with rival factions often allying with the Chinese Tang dynasty.
Chinese Diplomatic & Military Strategies
The Han and Tang dynasties effectively used divide-and-rule tactics, forming alliances with rival factions within nomadic groups.
The Chinese also relied on a combination of military campaigns and economic incentives, offering titles and wealth to steppe leaders who agreed to submit.
匈奴和各種突厥族群是強(qiáng)大的草原游牧民族，但隨著時(shí)間的推移，他們中的許多人被中國王朝擊敗或同化。幾個(gè)關(guān)鍵原因?qū)е铝怂麄兊乃ヂ浠蜃罱K投降：
內(nèi)部分裂和內(nèi)戰(zhàn)：
匈奴：在一段時(shí)期的統(tǒng)治后，匈奴聯(lián)盟因內(nèi)部爭端而分裂，導(dǎo)致南匈奴（后來歸順漢朝）和北匈奴（被趕到西方）的分裂。
突厥：突厥汗國因內(nèi)部權(quán)力斗爭而削弱，敵對派系經(jīng)常與中國唐朝結(jié)盟。
中國的外交和軍事戰(zhàn)略：
漢朝和唐朝有效地使用了分而治之的策略，與游牧群體內(nèi)部的敵對派系結(jié)盟。
中國還依靠軍事行動和經(jīng)濟(jì)激勵的結(jié)合，向同意歸順的草原領(lǐng)袖提供頭銜和財(cái)富。
The Huns (xiongnu) and the Turks (G?ktürks, later Turkic groups) were formidable nomadic confederations that clashed with Chinese dynasties over centuries. Despite their military prowess, they were eventually defeated or forced to surrender due to a combination of internal and external factors.
1. Internal Division & Civil War
xiongnu: After reaching their peak in the 2nd century BCE, they suffered from internal power struggles. In 51 BCE, the xiongnu split into northern and southern factions. The southern xiongnu submitted to the Han Dynasty in 48 BCE, while the northern xiongnu were pushed further west.
G?ktürks: The First Turkic Khaganate collapsed in 583 CE due to internal disputes. The Second Turkic Khaganate (682–744 CE) faced similar factionalism, making it vulnerable to Chinese manipulation.
2. Chinese Diplomatic & Military Strategy
The Han Dynasty (206 BCE–220 CE) mastered the art of playing nomadic factions against each other. They allied with the southern xiongnu to weaken the northern ones.
The Tang Dynasty (618–907 CE) employed divide-and-conquer tactics against the Turks, often supporting rival claimants to the throne.
Strategic alliances with other nomadic groups, such as the .....rs, helped weaken the Turks.
3. Economic Dependence on China
Many nomadic groups relied on Chinese trade, particularly for silk, grain, and luxury goods. When Chinese dynasties cut off trade or imposed economic pressure, it destabilized nomadic economies.
Some nomadic leaders chose submission in exchange for Chinese titles, land, or financial incentives.
4. Chinese Military Superiority & Adaptation
By the Tang Dynasty, China had powerful cavalry forces, often integrating defeated nomads into its army.
The Great Wall and frontier fortifications hindered large-scale nomadic invasions.
The Tang military campaigns (630s-650s CE) led by General Li Jing crushed the Eastern Turkic Khaganate.
5. Climate Change & Migration Pressures
Droughts and resource shortages pushed some nomadic groups further west, leading them to abandon direct conflict with China.
The northern xiongnu, for example, migrated toward Central Asia and Europe, where they merged with other nomadic groups.
Conclusion
While the xiongnu and Turks were militarily powerful, their downfall was due to a combination of internal fragmentation, Chinese strategic diplomacy, economic dependency, and superior Chinese military adaptation. Despite this, the legacy of the xiongnu and Turks continued, influencing later steppe empires like the Mongols.
匈奴和突厥（后來的土耳其人）是強(qiáng)大的游牧民族聯(lián)盟，幾個(gè)世紀(jì)以來一直與中國王朝發(fā)生沖突。盡管他們軍事實(shí)力強(qiáng)大，但由于內(nèi)外因素的綜合作用，他們最終被擊敗或被迫投降。
1. 內(nèi)部分裂與內(nèi)戰(zhàn)
匈奴：在公元前 2 世紀(jì)達(dá)到頂峰后，他們遭受了內(nèi)部權(quán)力斗爭。公元前 51 年，匈奴分裂為南北兩派。南匈奴于公元前 48 年向漢朝臣服，而北匈奴則被進(jìn)一步趕往西方。 突厥：第一突厥汗國因內(nèi)部糾紛于公元 583 年崩潰。第二突厥汗國（公元 682-744 年）也面臨類似的派系斗爭，使其容易受到中國操縱。
2. 中國的外交和軍事戰(zhàn)略
漢朝（公元前 206 年 - 公元 220 年）精通了挑撥游牧派系相互對抗的藝術(shù)。他們與南方的匈奴結(jié)盟，削弱北方的匈奴。 唐朝（公元 618-907 年）對突厥人采取了分而治之的策略，經(jīng)常支持爭奪王位的競爭對手。 與其他游牧民族（如WWE族）的戰(zhàn)略聯(lián)盟有助于削弱土耳其人。
3. 對中國的經(jīng)濟(jì)依賴
許多游牧民族依賴中國貿(mào)易，尤其是絲綢、糧食和奢侈品。當(dāng)中國王朝切斷貿(mào)易或施加經(jīng)濟(jì)壓力時(shí)，就會破壞游牧經(jīng)濟(jì)的穩(wěn)定。 一些游牧領(lǐng)袖選擇屈服以換取中國的頭銜、土地或經(jīng)濟(jì)激勵。
4. 中國的軍事優(yōu)勢和適應(yīng)
到了唐朝，中國擁有強(qiáng)大的騎兵部隊(duì)，經(jīng)常將戰(zhàn)敗的游牧民族納入軍隊(duì)。 長城和邊境防御工事阻礙了大規(guī)模游牧民族的入侵。 由李靖將軍領(lǐng)導(dǎo)的唐朝軍事戰(zhàn)役（公元 630 年代至 650 年代）摧毀了東突厥汗國。
5. 氣候變化和移民壓力
干旱和資源短缺迫使一些游牧民族進(jìn)一步向西遷移，導(dǎo)致他們放棄與中國的直接沖突。 例如，北方的匈奴向中亞和歐洲遷移，在那里他們與其他游牧民族融合。
結(jié)論 雖然匈奴和土耳其人在軍事上很強(qiáng)大，但他們的垮臺是由于內(nèi)部分裂、中國戰(zhàn)略外交、經(jīng)濟(jì)依賴和中國優(yōu)越的軍事適應(yīng)性等因素的綜合作用。盡管如此，匈奴和突厥人的遺產(chǎn)仍在繼續(xù)，影響了后來的草原帝國，如蒙古人。