梟龍戰(zhàn)機的性能是否因其與米格-21的設計相似而受限?抑或在傳承經典設計的同時,它仍具備現(xiàn)代戰(zhàn)機的卓越性能?
Is the JF-17's performance limited by its design similarities to the MIG-21, or does it offer modern capabilities despite this?
譯文簡介
網友:JF-17并非基于米格-21設計,坦白說,不需要航空工程師也一眼能看出來。兩者根本看不出相似之處。唯一共同點大概是如今都算作“輕型戰(zhàn)斗機”。不過米格-21最初是作為攔截機設計的。
正文翻譯
JF-17并非基于米格-21設計,坦白說,不需要航空工程師也一眼能看出來。
兩者根本看不出相似之處。唯一共同點大概是如今都算作“輕型戰(zhàn)斗機”。不過米格-21最初是作為攔截機設計的。
兩者根本看不出相似之處。唯一共同點大概是如今都算作“輕型戰(zhàn)斗機”。不過米格-21最初是作為攔截機設計的。
評論翻譯
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JF-17 isn’t based on MiG-21, and frankly it doesn’t take an aerospace engineer to figure that out.
JF-17并非基于米格-21設計,坦白說,不需要航空工程師也一眼能看出來。
JF-17
MiG-21
米格-21
They really don’t look alike at all. About the only thing they share is the fact that both would be considered relatively light fighters now. MiG-21 was originally designed as an interceptor though.
兩者根本看不出相似之處。唯一共同點大概是如今都算作“輕型戰(zhàn)斗機”。不過米格-21最初是作為攔截機設計的。
JF-17 originally used a tweaked version of the MiG-29’s engine, but is supposed to be getting new Chinese ones in later variants. It was designed to be relatively low cost.
JF-17最初采用了經過改裝的米格-29發(fā)動機,但后續(xù)型號將換裝全新的中國引擎。該機型的設計目標是成本較低。
MiG-21 is obsolescent, with most users either in the process of retiring them or having already done so. JF-17 is much more modern.
米格-21已經逐步退役,大多數用戶國要么正退役,要么已退役。相比之下,JF-17要現(xiàn)代許多。
Qi Chen
Question: Is the JF-17's performance limited by its design similarities to the MIG-21, or does it offer modern capabilities despite this?
問:JF-17的性能是否因設計上“類似米格-21”而受限?它是否還是一款具備現(xiàn)代能力的戰(zhàn)機?
Answer:
答:
JF-17 and MiG-21 went divergent ways since 1980s.
自上世紀80年代以來,JF-17和米格-21已經走上完全不同的發(fā)展道路。
EDIT: Note, this analysis will involve quite a few comparisons which Indian readers will not like. This is unfortunately necessary, since 90% of Pakistan’s air force’s reason of existence is to fight India. So I can’t exactly get around it. So you can avoid read this post if those bits felt offensive.
補充說明:以下分析中會涉及一些印度讀者不喜歡的對比,但鑒于巴空軍90%的存在理由是抗衡印度,這些對比在所難免。如感到不適,可跳過此段。
Basically, JF-17 is a joint developed by China and Pakistan in the 1980s and based on the Chinese “super J-7” program. The “super” is actually in the program, originally referring to the improving radar, engine and electronics beyond the ability of third generation jet fighter (which, J-7, MiG-21 belongs to).
JF-17是上世紀80年代中國與巴基斯坦聯(lián)合研制的戰(zhàn)機,源于中國“超級J-7”計劃?!俺墶奔粗咐走_、發(fā)動機和電子設備性能超出第三代噴氣式戰(zhàn)斗機(J-7、米格-21同屬第三代)的水平。
Essentially, the program was China’s original effort to develop fourth generation fighter aircraft. The program is latter on discontinued in favor of the more immediately available Su-27 program (which eventually produced the later J-11, J-15, J-16). But it also has a spirit successor in China in the form of J-10, which formed the foundation of J-20 program, with J-36 being the newest generation.
本質上,該計劃是中國早期研制第四代戰(zhàn)機的嘗試。后來因蘇-27項目更為成熟,中國轉而發(fā)展蘇-27平臺(后衍生J-11、J-15、J-16)。但“超級J-7”的精神繼承者是J-10,它又成為J-20項目的基礎,而最新一代則是J-36。
As the result, despite being originally based out of a third generation program, by the time JF-17 materialized, it is a full-fledged fourth generation aircraft with even some technology from fifth generation.
因此,盡管最初源自第三代機項目,JF-17一經亮相已是一款完全意義上的第四代戰(zhàn)機,甚至融合了部分第五代技術。
Yes, JF-17’s DSI inlet and third generation AESA are both fifth generation fighter technology.
沒錯,JF-17的DSI進氣道和三代AESA雷達都是第五代戰(zhàn)機技術。
Fun fact, JF-17’s radar went through several around of change, at one point it was supposed to use AN/APG-83 which was supposed to be used for radar upgrade on US’s F-16 and APG-83 was developed as a light version of F-22 and F-35’s radar. However, as of 2025, the JF-17s are using Chinese KLJ-7AV2, which was similar lightweight version of radars used in fifth generation aircraft (since it is Chinese, it is from J-20 and J-35).
有趣的是,JF-17的雷達經歷多次更換,一度計劃采用美制AN/APG-83(為F-16升級而開發(fā),是F-22/F-35雷達的輕量版)。但截至2025年,JF-17采用了中國自研的KLJ-7AV2,它也是第五代戰(zhàn)機雷達的輕量版(源自J-20與J-35)。
This basically highlights a key difference between Pakistan and India. Pakistan has a lot better access to high tech gear compared to India. Mostly because Pakistan isn’t trying to be major power, so it actually just acts like a customer went for shopping. So they sent orders to China and US and the designers there come back with designs.
這也凸顯了巴基斯坦與印度在高科技裝備獲取上的差異。巴方更像“客戶”角色,向中美下單,設計方就提供現(xiàn)成方案;而印度則試圖自立門戶。
In comparison, India is trying a bit too hard to show it is an equal partner. Yes, self-sufficiency sounded like a good motto, but if you are the lesser partner in the matter, then it is important for you to know your limits and act with the proper humility. The Chinese certainly never tried to sound self-important when they are learned from the Russians and Americans, because that kind of pride is pointless and just irritate your teachers.
相比之下,印度試圖顯示“平起平坐”,強調自給自足固然不錯,但如果實力處于弱勢,就需知止而行。中國在向俄美學習時從不高調自夸,因為這種驕傲既無意義又會惹惱“老師”。
Oh and let’s not forget, Pakistan’s payment is generally timely (mostly because Saudi Arabia is actually the one paying the bill).
別忘了,巴基斯坦付款相當及時(主要是因為賬單實為沙特買單)。
In comparison, India has this weird habit that they believe that making the full payment agreed upon by the contract is somehow a sign of weakness and defeat. BTW, this is the core reason why India military purchase is generally way more expensive comparing to other countries. Because once you have to deal with India trying to get out of the payment for a few times, you started to jack up the initial payment to make sure those payment will be sufficient to cover your expense and profit margin.
而印度卻有個怪習慣,認為完全按合同付款是示弱與失敗的體現(xiàn)。這也是印度軍購通常比他國昂貴的核心原因——供應商在屢次被拖欠后,只能大幅提高預付款,以保證覆蓋成本和利潤。
Coming back to JF-17. It is a fourth generation fighter period and by European standard, it is actually 4.5 generation, since most of the key parameters are either from fourth generation fighters or retro-upxed version of fifth generation fighter technology.
回到JF-17本身,它是一款第四代戰(zhàn)機,以歐洲標準看甚至屬于4.5代,因其絕大多數關鍵性能要么源自第四代要么是第五代技術的“復刻”升級版。
Its biggest limitation is that it is a single engine light fighter. So its payload and range is limited by its very nature as a light fighter.
其最大局限在于單發(fā)輕型戰(zhàn)斗機的定位,故其載荷與航程受限。
Also, it is also relative “slow” (Mach 1.6 top speed) in a sense. No, JF-17 isn’t actually slow comparing to the fourth generation multiple role fighters and way faster than F-35 due to F-35’s design issues, but it is actually slow by third generation fighter standard.
此外,從某種意義上說,它也較“慢”(極限1.6馬赫)。這并非與第四代多用途戰(zhàn)機或F-35相比有多慢(事實上其速度比F-35還快,后者因設計犧牲了部分極速),而是相較于第三代機確實遜色。
Fun fact, in general, the fourth generation fighters are much slower than third generation fighters. This is because third generation fighters, due to the lack of reliable long range missile, generally has to get to within visual range to engage the enemy aircraft. This means if your radar saw nuclear warhead carrying bombers coming towards your border, your third generation fighter have to get there in short order.
有趣的是,第四代戰(zhàn)機普遍比第三代戰(zhàn)機速度更慢。這主要是因為:第三代戰(zhàn)機受限于當時遠程導彈技術尚不成熟,往往需要逼近目視距離才能與敵機交戰(zhàn)。這意味著——當雷達發(fā)現(xiàn)攜帶核彈頭的轟炸機朝邊境飛來時,你的三代機必須爭分奪秒火速攔截。
This is why you got monsters like MiG-25, or J-8, both can flight into Mach 2.5 range if needed.
這也是為什么會有米格-25、殲-8等“怪獸”機型出現(xiàn),它們在必要時速可達2.5馬赫級別。
In fact, even among the fifth generation fighter, the only one that can for sure out-fly the third generation fighter is the newest batch of J-20S with twin WS-15 engines. Otherwise even the F-22 cannot out fly J-8 in short burst (F-22 will beat J-8 in a sustained cruise, but not in top speed.)
事實上,就連第五代機中,唯有最新批次的雙WS-15殲-20S能在短時極速上超越第三代機。即便是F-22,在短促加速上也不敵殲-8(雖長期巡航時F-22占優(yōu),但極速不及殲-8)。
As the result, by mission profile, the light-third generation fighters (which was the origin of JF-17) is actually a bit too slow.
因此,從任務定位上看,第三代輕型戰(zhàn)機(也是JF-17的出身)確實有些偏慢。
On the other hand, the very reason fourth and fifth generation fighter didn’t need to be that fast in the first place is because they got missiles that can go way faster than an aircraft with a meat sack pilot in there. So JF-17’s Mach 1.6 top speed is sufficient (at least against India).
另一方面,第四、第五代戰(zhàn)機之所以無需過分追求極速,是因為它們擁有遠超任何噴氣機的導彈。故JF-17的1.6馬赫頂速已綽綽有余(至少對印度而言)。
Marcello Gusberti
Design similarity to the MiG-21 is an HELL of a good starting point for any plane.
與米格-21在外形上“類似”,對任何飛機來說都是非常不錯的設計起點。
Plane kicked ass in the sixties/seventies and kept kicking ass, and F-15 ones, up to Cope India exercises in 2004.
米格-21在六七十年代大顯身手,之后連F-15都難以撼動,甚至在2004年的“印度之盾”(Cope India)演習中表現(xiàn)出色。
So, absolutely not a limitation for JF-17 own performances, that are instead reduced by the increment of weight they have endured to kept an utility also in the recent scenarios i.e. more fuel/payload and a larger radar.
因此,所謂“與米格-21類似”絕不是JF-17性能的局限。它真正的性能犧牲,源自為了適應現(xiàn)代需求而不斷加裝更多燃油、彈載和更大的雷達所帶來的重量增加。
Salman Naveed
The JF-17 was never meant to be the cutting edge of the fleet or a qualitative driver. It was meant as a backbone fighter capable of interception, air defence, strike and ISR roles.
JF-17從未定位為艦隊尖端或質量驅動者,而是作為一款能執(zhí)行截擊、防空、打擊和情報監(jiān)視偵察(ISR)任務的主力戰(zhàn)機。
Also, it was meant as a cheap alternative to the hundreds of older A-5s (which the PAF has retired), F-7/F-7PGs (which are being phased out) and Mirages (which are being phased out). These diverse aircraft cost much more to maintain due to each having different maintenance requirements. Now, the single JF-17 can perform several roles but has the same engine, avionics etc. This saves on MRO costs by introducing a degree of similarity in ground infrastructure and skill-sets of pilots and engineers.
此外,JF-17旨在替代數百架已退役的殲-5、正在退役的殲-7/殲-7PG和幻影系列機型。這些老機型因維護需求各異,維護成本極高。而單一機型的JF-17在執(zhí)行多種任務時可共享發(fā)動機、航電等系統(tǒng),有助于降低地面維護、維修和運行(MRO)成本,并統(tǒng)一飛行員與工程師的技能體系。
The Thunder was not meant to be a competitor to the F-16 (which, however, is losing its edge to it) or to another high end aircraft like the Gripen, Rafel, Tornado, Flanker or Typhoon.
“雷電”戰(zhàn)機并非要與F-16(盡管F-16正被其逐步替代)或“陣風”“颶風”“側衛(wèi)”“臺風”等高端機型競爭。
It was meant to be a cheap aircraft which the PAF could use to form its new fighter fleet. Also, the JF-17 could introduce new technologies such as air to air refuelling, AESA radar, BVR missiles and precision strike to the wider fleet, thus being its backbone and allow seamless integration of logistics and maintenance in wartime by ensuring a degree of commonality between individual units due to shared spare parts and components.
其定位是一款廉價機型,供巴空軍組建新一代戰(zhàn)斗機部隊。同時,JF-17還能向全軍隊推廣空中加油、AESA雷達、超視距導彈和精確打擊等新技術,成為主力,并在戰(zhàn)時借助統(tǒng)一的備件與組成件實現(xiàn)物流與維護的一體化。
Also, the Thunder will gradually add to its technological superiority by increasing the use of composites in the airfrx, a higher thrust engine, IRST, HOBS BVRAAMs, a targeting pod, a nose hard-point and an AESA radar.
此外,“雷電”還將通過在機體結構中更多采用復合材料、更高推力發(fā)動機、紅外搜索與跟蹤系統(tǒng)(IRST)、高軌道后掠彈(HOBS BVR AAM)、目標指示吊艙、機頭掛點以及AESA雷達等升級,逐步提升其技術優(yōu)勢。